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Welcome to episode 22 of the Mindful & Driven podcast! It’s all about how to not lose sight of what really matters whilst chasing your dreams.
Episode 22’s guest is Dipanshu Rawal, a life-purpose coach based in India. He lost his job a year ago after failing to turn up to work on a Sunday on which he wasn’t contacted to turn up anyway and this really made him think about what was important to his life and whether or not he was living alongside the values that he believed in.
He decided to become a life coach because he wants to help people. He works with them 1-1 to try and change their lives around and lead them to a more fulfilling life.
I hope you enjoy listening to our conversation! I’d love it if you could subscribe, leave me a review and follow me on social channels.
- You can find all my work and socials here: http://amardeep.co
- Download my free Anti-Burnout Toolkit here: http://antiburnout.mindfuldriven.com
- United for Global Mental Health: https://unitedgmh.org/mental-health-support
- Find more about Dipanshu: https://www.dipanshurawal.com/
- Follow him on Twitter: https://twitter.com/rawaldipanshu
- Follow him on Medium: https://dipanshurawal.medium.com/
Topics discussed in this episode:
- You don’t need to work hard to earn more.
- You need to find an activity that you’re naturally interested in and develop it.
- Making money starts inside your head.
- How to overcome the beliefs that keep you from earning more.
- Why it’s important to change the deep-seated beliefs you have before going into business or starting a new activity.
- You don’t need to work 14 hours a day to earn more money.
Keynotes:
- Introduction (0:00)
- “Money comes to you when you do what’s natural to you.” (1:40)
- A focused future (6:09)
- Talking about burnout and realigning where he is right now (7:26)
- All about momentum, efficiency, passion, and fulfillment (12:07)
- Old patterns and the challenges of living alone (16:31)
- Dipanshu’s ideal lifestyle (20:22)
- “I am responsible.” (21:09)
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Intro Music:
“Himalayas” by Mona Wonderlick — bit.ly/youtube-monawonderlick
Creative Commons — Attribution 3.0 Unported — CC BY 3.0
Free download: bit.ly/himalayas-download
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Transcript
[00:00:00] Dipanshu:
So that fast either you can let that control your present, or you can think of
a future and start living as a prerequisite of it. Eventually I saw that this
is not really a healthy belief, so instead of it, what I rather prefer is that
money comes to you and you do what’s natural to you. I am responsible. It’s not
that I’m at fault. So there’s a difference. I may not be at fault, but I am
responsible for what happens in my life.
[00:00:33] Amardeep:
Welcome to the Mindful and Driven Podcast, where we help you to not lose sight
of what’s really important whilst chasing your dreams. Today’s guest is
Dipanshu Rawal, a life-purpose coach based in India. He lost his job a year ago
after failing to turn up to work on a Sunday on which he wasn’t contacted to
turn up anyway and this really made him think about what was important to his
life and whether or not he was living alongside the values that he believed in.
He decided to become a life coach because he wants to help people. He works
with them 1-1 to try and change their lives around and lead them to a more
fulfilling life. I hope you enjoy this
entire conversation.
Welcome to
Dipanshu. It’s great to have you here.
[00:01:06] Dipanshu:
Thank you so much for having me here.
[00:01:08] Amardeep:
Where are you joining from today?
[00:01:09] Dipanshu:
I’m joining from Chandigarh, India
[00:01:11] Amardeep:
Nice. So, I think you’re my first guest who’s in India. So I had a few people
who are like me, of Indian heritage who’ve come abroad. But I think you’ve got
my first one actually in India, so a new milestone for the podcast.
[00:01:23] Dipanshu:
Thank you for that privilege and prestige.
[00:01:26] Amardeep:
So you’ve got a really interesting story. So I’m going to try and jump straight
into it, but the first thing I’d like to start off with is what’s some common
advice you disagree with?
[00:01:33] Dipanshu:
So one of the very first thing, and I kept thinking about that question over
and over again for the last couple of hours, because I knew that’s one thing
you would want it to ask in this conversation and the very first thing that the
first common advice is, you need to work really hard to make money. And I don’t
agree with it even a bit. I used to agree with it for a really, really long
time, but then I started my journey as a coach. I hired my own coaches and
eventually I saw that this is not really a healthy belief. So instead of it,
what I rather prefer is money comes to you when you do what’s natural to you.
So that’s one for starters.
[00:02:14] Amardeep:
If you’re going to that a little bit more than, so why, so you disagree with it
because you think like people can find their own way with money? How can they
do that? How can they change this belief that they have? And have you seen the
results of people changing that belief in it, then making them happier?
[00:02:28] Dipanshu:
This is one of the beliefs that’s been ingrained, like, especially talking
about Indian people that you need to work really hard to earn really good
money. Right. But then you come at a certain level where you see that you
cannot work more than 10 hours, 14 hours, 17 hours a day. And you still need to
make more money. Right. So how do you do that? That’s where the question comes
from. And because this is the belief. So our beliefs create our reality, that
that’s kind of the premise for the whole life coaching and the belief that we
need to work super hard to make money, or if it’s coming easy, I don’t deserve
it. Those kinds of beliefs really, you know, come in between you, number one,
actually earning that money. And number two, if by chance you are running that
money, accepting that you deserve it. Right? So the first example I’ve seen as
myself, I was working a full-time job. I was doing freelance marketing onsite,
and then I was learning how to be a coach. So on average I was been working 13,
14 hours a day. And now I’m working one third of it, average five hours a day,
and I’m making triple the amount. And then again, I’m just getting started.
Right? So that’s the first example that I’ve seen, obviously in myself. And
then again, I’ve seen this working with clients when they start a side hustle,
for example, starting a side hustle in what comes easier to them. So for
example, business comes really easier to me. It’s kind of in my genes and I
have a client for whom spirituality comes really naturally to her. So when she
talks about in spiritual terms, she is a really different person. So it doesn’t
feel like work. And if I have to give her a friend’s of one of the Medium
articles I was reading recently, like a week ago, it was about Charles Bukowski
and how his tombstone reads “don’t try”. So for a person who tried
really hard in his life, who struggled a lot in becoming, if you know the story
of Charles Bukowski, who struggled a lot in becoming a writer, it was quite
ironical to put that on his tombstone. Like don’t try. And what he actually
means by that is don’t try if it feels like you’re trying hard. It shouldn’t
feel hard.
[00:04:44] Amardeep:
I know you had a couple of other things you wanted to mention too. One other
piece of advice you disagree with. What are those?
[00:04:49] Dipanshu:
Another thing that I usually disagree with is your current present will detect,
will dictate how your future with. And I’ve seen this over and over again, and
it’s kind of still raw. This one thought process that we are either living as
the reflection of our past, or we are living as a prerequisite of our future.
So how you spend your present is on you. Either you are going to reflect on how
you were in the past, or you’re going to live your present in the way as a
prerequisite for your future. So this is one of the difference that comes in
anybody’s life when they opt for life coaching. Okay. Or when they start
working on themselves as a self-improvement, when they start reading books,
they stop thinking a lot about past, like it has happened before, how will it
not happen in future. Right? They stop messing with the past and this start
thinking about, okay, so in future, I want to have, let’s say a six figure
income in five years down the line. What can I do today to make that happen?
Right. So a lot of people say that, oh, I have never received a good education,
or my parents didn’t give me this, the society was really this or my, you know,
family didn’t let me do this, so that passed either you can let that control
you of present, or you can think of a future and start living as a prerequisite
of it.
[00:06:10] Amardeep:
One visualization is, I really like is where you now people think there’s
different branches you could take in life, right? And people see it as in the
current day, they’re on one of those branches. So their lifestyles that at one
point, and there’s all these different branches and all these different places
they could have gone that they didn’t, and they kind of see it as a negative.
But what you can also see is that there’s another tree starting from today and
the today tree has a million possibilities as well. So just because you didn’t
do the other opportunities in the past, it doesn’t mean that in the future, you
don’t have different options available to you. And it’s kind of that empowering
thought of, yes. You didn’t do this or yes, you didn’t do that in the past but
even today, you can make decisions which are going to make an effect and give
you different life options and different ways to live your life in a way that
makes you happy.
[00:06:53] Dipanshu:
So on the same terms at any given moment, we have a choice to either, you know,
spend this moment where we are right now, to either be reflecting on the past
or be taking action in a focused future. It’s every moment we spend, we have a
choice, like, do I work towards my future? Or do I continue fixing my past,
which is not in our hands, frankly. Right. This is one of the really big themes
that I think is impactful, when we talk about being mindful and driven,
[00:07:26] Amardeep:
You briefly mentioned that earlier on about you used to work like 13, 14 hour
days. Can you tell me a bit more about like that part of your life? And you
said, I think you said you did it since you were 13 years old and then what
happened and what was the moment that made you switch and realigned back to the
position you are now?
[00:07:43] Dipanshu:
Yeah. Sure. So I was really programmed to work 13, 14, 15 hours a day. And I’ve
been doing it since I was 13. I was like not working at that time. I was
studying, but I used to study 10, 12 hours a day, or I was really occupied in
sports, science activities, cultural activities, speaking, all those stuff. I
was hardwired to do that, and it was really natural for me to do that back
then. And I’ve been trying, experimenting with my sleep cycles since I was 14.
So there was a time when I used to sleep from 7:00 PM to 2:00 AM. Because when
I would wake up at 2:00 AM from 2:00 AM two in the morning to 7:00 in the
morning, the house will be really silent and I could work and study really peacefully.
So having doing those kinds of experimentations since the beginning, and then
what really shifted for me was when I came into this again, circle of life
coaches, first practicing with other new life coaches. And I discovered last
year that I hadn’t taken a day off in four years. Not even a Sunday off unless
I was sick or I was traveling and now we’re taking a day off. I was like, oh,
this working, because I always thought that if I work more, I’ll earn more. And
what happened was I went through serious burnouts last year and it was like, my
body just gave up, like it wanted to just rest. And I started becoming more
mindful. And this is when the parts started, you know, shifting. And I decided
that I know I love my work, so this is another irony with being burned out,
that people, most of the people who go through burnout are those who love their
jobs or who love what they do. So they don’t know how to create a boundary.
Right. So last year I started being mindful and I realized I really love what I
do. But instead of focusing on how many hours I can work out, I’m going to cut
it to half or one third and I’m going to focus on how can I create more impact
in those hours?
[00:09:42] Amardeep:
Yeah. So did you, was it almost, you had to wait for that burnout moment,
before making that change or were you thinking about it and you wanted to make
the change? You’ve been delaying it, I guess?
[00:09:51] Dipanshu:
So I was in the Matrix and I didn’t know I was in the Matrix and unless I went
through that, you know, burnout, unless I was offered, take this red pill that
you’re living your life with, not so healthy, you know, such an unhealthy
belief, unless I took that red pill, I didn’t change. I needed that
breakthrough.
[00:10:12] Amardeep:
With your coaching clients for example, can you spot the signs of this before
and how do you stop them for going through the same burnout that you did?
[00:10:19] Dipanshu:
So, one thing is, we do this a couple of times before we actually learn. That’s
how we learn anything in life, right. But nowadays I’ve been like really being
vocal about it. That stopped when you are at 50% stress levels, not when you’re
at 90% stress levels, take a break when you’re at 50% instead of when you’re
90%. So that’s something that I’m mindful about. And I really being vocal in
whatever I write, wherever I talk, are you really at 50%, 60% stress levels? Or
are you just waiting for your body to give up?
[00:10:51] Amardeep:
Obviously the bad way to do it, right? You don’t want to wait for your body to
give up before making the changes. So in terms of the change, you’ve reduced
your hours, what kind of decisions did you make to reduce those hours? Like
what was it that you cut out of those 15, 16 hour days? Where did you lose that
10 hours?
[00:11:06] Dipanshu:
So, first of all I was traveling like, and I was doing a full-time job, eight,
nine hours still. So I became self, like self-employed, that was the first
thing. And second thing about procrastination, I’m [unintelligible] at heart,
so the first productivity rule that I know is cut out everything that doesn’t
really matter or is not impacting you. Right. I think that was the most
significant thing I did. I cut out all the things that, you know, really
contribute to where I wanted to go, or I became really flexible with the things
that didn’t really matter. So I, so there are certain things that are essential
that I definitely need to do and want to do. And then there are certain things
that I’m just doing because, I’m enjoying it, for example, my podcast. So I did
it for like three, four months, but then something important came up and I was
totally ready to let it go for some time, because I knew that, it’s okay, I’m
going to give it a rest for a couple of months and then we’ll revisit it back.
[00:12:04] Amardeep:
Yeah. Cause it’s a tough thing, isn’t it? When you start something new, it’s,
often it takes a while for it to really gain momentum. It’s almost when I make
different decisions now I’m making them based on, can I realistically and sustainably
do this for several months or not? And if I can’t and then I don’t start it, I
wait until I can do it sustainably, then I start it. So for example, if
YouTube, right at the moment, this podcast would be on YouTube and my other
podcasts are on YouTube, but maybe by the time this comes out, I’ll be starting
to create my own individual YouTube content as well. But I’m not doing that
just yet because I know then I’d have too many things going on and I ended up
having to cut something. Whereas if I wait a couple months, I’ll be better at
what I do elsewhere. And that efficiency will mean that I can add more stuff to
my plate. So I’m always kind of consciously thinking about, do I have time for
this not today, but in three months time as well. And if I don’t, then I can’t
start it. I’ve got to wait until it actually fits into my routine a bit better.
[00:12:59] Dipanshu:
Yeah. It’s, it’s funny how I start a lot of projects. I’m not a really
organized or, you know, a person but, usually start a lot of projects by saying
with this one statement that, it must be fun. Sure. Right. And then I make it
happen the next day. That being said, another common advice that I don’t agree
with is that you need to monetize your passion. I do not agree with it. So
there’s, I I’ve been following this one thing for the last couple of years and
some Indian director, Bollywood director said this that should always have a
different profession and a different passion, one for the kitchen and one for
the soul and I really love that one statement. So I love writing. I’m a writer
at heart, but I’ve been trying my best not to make it profession. I write
almost every day. I use it as a marketing thing, but my money is not directly
related to my writing. So it offers me that creative space and freedom, and a
lot of people just try to monetize their passion, where it just needs to be a
hobby.
[00:14:02] Amardeep:
Yes. For example, people say I’m passionate about writing and writing is
something I enjoy, yes. But if I could only spend, if I had to have my last day
in life, would I choose to spend it writing? No, I wouldn’t. And that’s, it
sometimes are different levels of passion that sometimes people don’t
understand, I think is that writing is partly my job, which brings with it
different pressures. But then I dance, like I meet my friends, I do all these
other things and I’m not sacrificing those other things I enjoy for the
writing. Which is what many other people would do. Like, oh, I love writing, so
I need to only do writing. And it’s like, but that’s like, life is so diverse.
There’s so many things you can do in life. Why force yourself to have just one
passion? Having a variety also makes you better, whether you do because you get
different experiences, different opinions, and that makes your life more,
what’s the word like,
[00:14:52] Dipanshu:
Yep. More fulfilling.
[00:14:54] Amardeep:
Fulfilling. Yeah.
[00:14:55] Dipanshu:
Yes, yes. And then again one thing I really, I believe that really helps in
this domain of figuring out what you want to do is the first step, the first
step of anything, to be honest awareness. Like what are you really good at or
what you really enjoy doing? What is something that gives you energy? So
talking to people one-on-one gives me so much energy. And that’s why tools like
coaching is the profession for me. I love coaching people. I love having deep
conversations with them on the other hand writing, maybe not so as a full-time
option. I love doing it, but I’d rather pursue it as a hobby, as a something
that helps me, you know, express myself creatively instead of pushing the
pressure of money on it. On the other hand coaching I’m totally okay. Coaching
having the pressure off of earning me money.
Hi everyone. I hope you’re enjoying the episode so far. I
want to take a quick break to ask you to check in with yourself. There’s many
people struggling with balance and it’s nothing to be ashamed about. It’s tips
that my guests might share can hopefully help you along the way, but if you
already feel overwhelmed or burnt out, it’s probably best that you ask somebody
for help too. For some, this might be a friend or family member, while others
might feel like they have nobody they can talk to. If you’re one of these
people, check out the link in the show notes, it’s for United for Global Mental
Health. They’ve got health plans all across the world, with people willing to
listen on the other side. It’s important to let somebody know how you’re
feeling. Now, back to the show.
[00:16:24] Amardeep:
Is there anything you’re struggling with at the moment? So you’ve obviously
reduced your hours significantly, but do you feel like you’ve got the right
balance at the moment or is it still some things are kind of causing you
issues?
[00:16:32] Dipanshu:
So, yeah. I’m still learning. I’m fairly new to it. I usually go back to old
patterns. One pattern I had was stress eating. And for the last one year, I
have quite significantly grew in my healthy habits. Right. So I still sometimes
go back into old patterns because I’m fairly new to it. I’m learning. But one
good thing about right now is I’m really privileged to have my own coach and my
therapist at a single call whenever I need them. So nowadays I know when I’m at
50% stress, I take a break. I don’t need to wait till 90%. Right. So then
again, I’m living single for now. I am planning to get a dog hopefully really
soon. So I have better challenges to tackle.
[00:17:22] Amardeep:
With the living alone, is that causing you to struggle in some way with your balance
or how does that affect you?
[00:17:27] Dipanshu:
So, one thing is that this is one belief I had, an unhealthy belief that a
romantic relation will drain my energy. It will take away something from me.
But I’ve been in this. So I didn’t date anyone for about 20 months and I went
to chase peace for such a long period that I was this close to becoming a monk.
And I’ve written, I written about it on Medium that I went too far in chasing
peace. And then eventually I realized that all of those were really fear-driven
decision. And at the core of awareness, I don’t want to live a fear-driven
life. I life driven by insecurities or living as the reflection of your past.
Right? Then I give this a chance. Let me date. Let me see how it goes. And this
person that I met, now when I’m with her, it really gives me energy. Right? So
the one lesson I’ve been learning in my personal life in the last like, four or
five months, is it’s okay to ask for help. It’s okay to let somebody else help
you too. So living alone, I really feel, again, one of the unpopular advisers,
like you should be alone for some time. Like you must be alone for sometime. So
you should see what it feels to not have a need to be with someone. To how not
to be desperate for someone, for company for touch or something like that. So
living alone, I don’t feel it has any problems. I’m quite used to living alone,
but this one thing that when I’m thinking of having a dog, it comes with
certain challenges when you are alone.
[00:19:07] Amardeep:
Yeah, because obviously you’ve got to look after it. You’ve got to get somebody
to sit if you want to go away. Then,
[00:19:11] Dipanshu:
it becomes easier if you, you know, like you have, let’s say a roommate or
some, if you have your partner with you, then having a dog becomes relatively
easier. Let’s see how it goes. I’m really curious to see what kind of
challenges I’ll face.
[00:19:25] Amardeep:
Are you getting a dog because you’ve always wanted one or is it because you
feel a little bit alone that you want the companionship pet.
[00:19:31] Dipanshu:
I really wanted a dog and because I’ve been, you know, as I mentioned, I was
chasing to be a monk, I was actually living like a monk in this normal life. So
I kind of missed out that component of feeling loneliness or feeling alone. And
I became really comfortable in my own company. So before this, like two, three
years ago, my pattern was dating a person, not working out with her, and then
jumping onto the next relationship. Was, it just was so afraid of being alone
because I’ve worked on this for years now. So it’s, I feel it’s not there
anymore.
[00:20:09] Amardeep:
What does a, like ideal lifestyle look like to you? Are you living at the
moment or is there more changes you want to make in the future?
[00:20:15] Dipanshu:
I’m living a lot of that already. As to what I could be doing by myself
individually, like working about 25 to 30 hours a week, I may want to reduce it
like 10, 20% more, but 25 to 30 hours a week, my income has not been where I
want to go, obviously, because there are levels to growth. I am doing what I
really enjoy doing writing, coaching, going live, enjoying social media,
meeting new people, having these conversations. The next stages will be having
a family and growing that family. So at this stage, I feel like I’ve been
dreaming about the life that I’m living.
[00:20:56] Amardeep:
Nice. What’s one mindset shift you think people today could make, that would
make a positive difference in their lives?
[00:21:03] Dipanshu:
So one, really really really significant mindset, and this one mindset shift
changes everything. It is saying that I am responsible. It’s not that I’m at
fault. So there’s a difference. I may not be at fault, but I am responsible for
what happens in my life. Somebody comes in your home and they steal everything.
You are not at fault, but you are responsible to take care of yourself, right?
So you are responsible for the future you have. So in past there might have
been a lot of things that you are not aware of. You are not aware of that you
are living in the Matrix, but what you’re doing right now is 100% your choice.
Then again, if you’re not living the life you want to live in 2021, totally
understandable. But if you’re not living your life in 2025, that you could have
been living, and you are aware of it right now, you are responsible for it. So
all the good, all the bad that’s happening in my life, I’m responsible.
[00:21:59] Amardeep:
So how has this changed when you took on that belief? How did that change your
lifestyle or the decisions you made?
[00:22:05] Dipanshu:
So this probably started like six years ago when I went through my first period
of depression and anxiety attacks. My family went through some financial issues
and I realized that I couldn’t also further education. And that really broke my
heart and I felt so helpless, so hopeless that I had no clue, no answers, like
what should I do? What should have been done here? And then I realized that,
you know what, instead of complaining, let me take care of it. Like, again, not
myself, I was working with a therapist back then also. Like, what can I do
about it? And again, I go back to my basic principles of stoicism. Like what
can I do in this situation? What can I do about it? What’s in my control and
asking that every single time actually changed things bit by bit. So instead of
thinking life is happening to me, the second life of, the second level of
consciousnesses, that life is happening by me. I’m the captain of my ship. And
then there is like different levels of it. The third level comes that life is
happening through me. Which is that the universe is co-creating this life with
me that goes in a relatively spiritual terms. So it’s, you know, the stage one,
stage two and stage three. That’s how it goes. So I am responsible for life. A
lot of people are still living in level one, you know consciousness that life
is happening to me. My parents are doing this to me. My partner is doing this
to me. I’m not finding this. I’m not finding that. So the level up second level
is that I’m responsible for this. Life is happening by me. I am creating this.
[00:23:41] Amardeep:
Where would you say you are in the levels now?
[00:23:43] Dipanshu:
Definitely jumping from two to three. I started jumping from,
[00:23:47] Amardeep:
[crosstalk] you’re in between,
[00:23:50] Dipanshu:
I believe. So. I started jumping from one to two when I went through depression
and anxiety for the first time. And 2016, I guess that was my moment of
realizing that, you know what? This is Matrix and I don’t want to be here. I
don’t want to be in this. It’s all a lie. It’s not that what’s happening to me.
I need to take charge of my life. I need to take responsibility. I need to make
sure that I am having what I want to have to when the world tells me that you
need to work nine hours a day in order to make money. I don’t want to do that.
I don’t want to have a future. I have to work nine hours a day. Right. So it’s
my responsibility to do something about it.
[00:24:29] Amardeep:
What do you think can take you from two to three? So you sitting in between at
the moment. What changes could you make or shifts could you make to make that
next jump?
[00:24:38] Dipanshu:
A deep connection and spiritual practice. Re-strengthening your faith? So I
have written about it that there’s no spirituality without a spiritual
practice, because when you sleep, your mind kind of resets itself and you to
really strengthen your faith, that you know what somebody else is making this
happen. There is energy in this world. There’s positivity in the world. Our
universe has my back, all those spiritual beliefs that every individual has on
their own. So strengthening that faith that you know, what everything, every
obstacle is, divinely pleased at perfect places. Right. So those spiritual
beliefs. That’s where I am currently. That’s what I’m practicing.
[00:25:22] Amardeep:
It’s been a pleasure to talk to you Dipanshu. Where can people listening hear more
from you?
[00:25:26] Dipanshu:
So, yes I’m really active on LinkedIn, Instagram and Medium and on Medium, I am
actually writing the first self-help book and series that I’ve seen on Medium
being written. And I’ve already published the first chapter [unintelligible].
[00:25:39] Amardeep:
Great. So the thing to finish up on is, what’s one small thing that’s brought
you joy recently?
[00:25:45] Dipanshu:
I talked to a cousin of my girlfriend recently, like a couple of days ago for
the first time, and she was one of the, like, I connected with her so deeply in
the first few words we exchanged. That was a really, really beautiful
connection I had with her, and it really gave me joy talking to her.
[00:26:13] Amardeep:
If
you’re listening on Apple Podcasts, I’d love it If you could leave me a five
star review, it really helps get the message out further. Wherever you’re
listening, it would be awesome If you could subscribe and share in your social
media channels. If you want to see more of my work and advice, you can find all
of the links in the show notes.
Thank you again for listening and I hope you have a lovely
day.
Amar is a coach, podcast host and writer. He helps ambitious people to grow without burning out. His articles have been read millions of times and he’s interviewed founders of companies such as Netflix and Twitter.
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