Study the Impact of Your Actions to MAKE INFORMED DECISIONS in Your Life w/ Vishaal Virani

[00:00:00] Vishaal: So I need to think very carefully about what are the things that I can do that actually create impact that those beyond the status quo of what would have happened anyway, because anyway, youTube is growing, anyway, more health organizations are getting onto the path for, so one of the things that you can do that are truly catalyst. And when you’re a team of one that is much harder to figure out, because of course, when you have a bunch of people around you

[00:00:32] Amardeep: Welcome to the Mindful and Driven Podcast, where we help you to not lose sight of what’s really important whilst chasing your dreams. Today’s guest is Vishaal Virani who’s the head of UK health at YouTube. Vishaal has had an interesting career part. He started off as a doctor, then he went into management consulting before specializing in health tech and became an expert in that area so much, so that he was invited to give lectures at different universities to speak about how much the digital revolution is helping people in the health industry. With his background, his role at YouTube seems like the perfect fit and what his mission is to help people like you and me find the videos that will actually make a difference and are reliable in the information that they give so that we can be better informed and make better health conscious decisions. I hope you enjoy today’s conversation.

[00:01:22] Welcome to Mindful and Driven Vishaal. It’s a pleasure to have you.

[00:01:24] Vishaal: Lovely to be here, Amar. Thank you.

[00:01:26] Amardeep: So for audience, how we actually know each other is from maybe seven years ago where both of us were interviewing for different consultancies and we became online buddies to interview each other and help each other prep, and then we stayed in touch and it’s years later, he’s been doing some very cool stuff, so I reached out again and what want to get your opinion to start with is what are some common advice that you disagree with?

[00:01:50] Vishaal: So, yeah, I remember, I remember when you asked this one in your questionnaire and I was like, that’s a tricky one. That was a tricky one for me to answer, because I feel like, if there’s advice I disagree with, I kind of just disregard it and it doesn’t stay stored. And that’s possibly why I was thinking, oh, that is a tricky one. But I mean, I guess that one thing that, and I actually have to be honest, I don’t even know what I had said to you in my form, but one thing that comes to mind now is sort of, when people say never give up on something or keep persevering and trying, and I guess that I found that there are certain things that you end up realizing you are good at doing, and other things that guests you’re less inclined to do, or you get less enjoyment from doing, or your less good at them. And so actually knowing when to give up is a really valuable skill. And so persistence and perseverance, isn’t always the right approach. And I think that’s probably in personal life and professional life. I’ve experienced that in different ways. In professional life in particular, you can end up with a lot of things on your plate, if that’s the approach you take, especially if you’re in a role, which is quite open-ended, which is like, my role right now, it’s exactly that, and it could be taken in so many different ways. And if I was to say, oh, I have an idea and I’m not going to give up on it, then that. could just pull me in ten different directions at once and then suddenly you’re not really executing properly on any one thing. So yeah, that’s something that I think I’m trying to do. It’s actually tempting to take that advice and sort of be persistent always, but yeah, I’m trying to sort of be more selective in a way.

[00:03:32] Amardeep: Yeah. I think it’s really interesting when people talk about having grit and they say, keep going through the drudgery and keep persevering but if you’re not enjoying it, then when do you start taking the signals as actually, maybe I should be doing something else because who are you proving the point to? You’re just proving the point that you can work hard and you get through it, even if that’s not making you happy. Is that worth the principle or is it better to find something else with the short time you’ve got on Earth to do something better with your life that you enjoy more like, and I think that’s one of the things which I think it could be well-meaning but often it can make people stay in situations which don’t serve them for too long.

[00:04:11] Vishaal: Yes. No, absolutely. You know I, a lot of the, a lot of the joy in life comes from the journey as opposed to the destination. So this idea of don’t give up, keep persisting implies that the ultimate destination will be worth it and it might be, but there, if there’s no joy in the journey, then net net, it’s not a great, potentially not great. Obviously there are, there are times, and there are moments where it’s either something that you can’t give up on because it’s a must do for personal professional life, or it’s a, it’s a kind of must do because the destination is game-changing and there are, there are things in my life as well, where that has been the case. But yeah, as you say, life is short and I think people put too much credence on the outcome of everything that they do as opposed to the journey of it.

[00:05:05] Amardeep: Is there ever a time where you said there, there’s some places where the destination is worth it? What were the times when you did work pretty hard even though you weren’t enjoying it to get to the destination? Was it worth it in the end?

[00:05:15] Vishaal: Yeah. So let me, let me think. In, I guess, I guess in a way, in a way consulting, and this takes us back to our sort of, days or should I say long nights burning the midnight oil and all that sort of prep work we were doing. I think that for me, it was the quitting medicine and in order to get into consulting was a very painful journey, but, and I didn’t really enjoy all that much of it. But the ultimate destination being the opportunity to explore a range of career opportunities that sit outside of clinical medicine would not have come my way unless I went through that pain and the less I persevered. And as a result, it’s opened up a lot of opportunities almost which now puts me in a position in my professional life where I can have a multitude of initiatives to work on and can sort of be more selective about what I want to do and not do, because basically I managed to unlock this particular door that was, you know, a bit of a, a bit of, a bit of a master door to lots of other things. So I guess that, that is an example where it was worth persevering.

[00:06:38] Amardeep: How did you feel at that time when you were quitting medicine? Because obviously you started how for many years to do that. Was it an easy decision for you or what made you then go into consulting and take that different path? Because I know the same people being a doctor is part of their identity almost, and take that away from them can be really hard, even if they know it’s not making them happy.

[00:06:59] Vishaal: Yeah, you’re right. I mean, I think that being a doctor will be working in the healthcare profession in general, is very vocational and quite unique and different to other careers. Which is great, and that’s, I think one of the things that really appeals to people about it, but I would say that for me, it was not, it was not a necessarily a massive lead, tricky decision to leave for a couple of reasons. I mean, one others in the stage of my life, which, I think, you know, when you’re living it, you maybe don’t realize, but wow, what a beautiful time of life it is, mid twenties, no mortgage, no kids, was in a relationship, but not married. And so didn’t have all of these tough ties to a geography or ties to this, a certain amount of disposable income that I required to live a life of, whatever, right? And therefore all the choices were open to me without significant consequence, if it didn’t work out. Plus the fact that medicine is the type of career that you can come back to, and which is the case for most careers to be fair. People don’t always realize this thing. You jump out or something, if you were reasonably good at it, before you jumped out, then you can always go back into it. So, you know, it didn’t feel like a massively loaded decision for me. The bit that was trickier was the, what would I do instead? And that’s what I sort of felt like consulting ended up being such an important thing to persevere with because it allowed me the chance to see what else was out there during the period of doing consulting. So even consulting wasn’t so much the destination, which I was oh my god, this is amazing, but it’s more, it was just an opportunity to see what else was out there. But that bit, I would say even now creates anxiety for me, because partly because there are lots of options, but partly because there isn’t necessarily any one option, which you are perfectly suited to once you leave a vocation, like medicine where, you know, you went to med school and you’ve got the god-given right effectively to be a doctor and to continue to be employed by the NHS, pros and cons of that course, but it is what it is. Whereas, you know, as soon as you leave, you don’t have the god-given right for any job that you do for any path that you take. And that can be quite kind of nerve wracking, almost constantly, or I would say every career switching moment, not career switching, but every job switching moment, it becomes a period of anxiety again. It’s like, oh, impostor syndrome, all of those things come up right. Or it must be so many other crazy good people going for the job. Whereas when you go for a job at my friends who go for jobs in medicine now as a consultant, and it’s like, it’s a funny old process where they sort of just know that they’re probably going to get that job already because they’ve worked in that hospital before, they know that the doctors, they obviously ticked all the, all the sort of exam boxes, and they’ve already been teed up as the preferred candidate. Right. And that just doesn’t really happen in other. Careers and jobs. So yeah, that bit, I think is quite tricky on an ongoing basis.

[00:09:52] Amardeep: Yeah. That’s an interesting point because I know many people are doctors and dentists as well, and they often have things on the side that they do, so I think just after Doctorpreneurs was that when you were still a doctor or is that afterwards?

[00:10:04] Vishaal: Yeah, actually, I mean, it was, I wasn’t, I got involved in it whilst I was still a doctor. So the original founder had been running it for a couple of years, and at that point I attended an event and that was actually the event that where I met the partner at the first day of consulting firm that I joined and effectively, therefore Doctorpreneurs, which is just basically as a community of healthcare innovators that I helped run alongside the age of it, it was kind of the catalyst for my more, I guess, innovations for, [unintelligible] type journey. So yeah, I guess that I really got more into it once I left medicine. It’s like truly see the value of building the community like that for the benefit of others that were in the same position as I was when I was sort of thinking about leaving. But yeah, I guess I first engaged with it when I still doing medicine.

[00:10:52] Amardeep: So you found that doing that on the side. Did it speed up your journey in switching to consulting?

[00:10:57] Vishaal: I mean, I guess I would say directly, so because it was an opportunity to find a firm that was willing to take me on. I don’t know what may have happened if I hadn’t met that partner and got down the journey with that small consulting firm that I started with because I was in an interview persons with a range of different companies, and as you well know, as I do, and everyone else does, it’s not an easy thing to get into, right? And actually a lot of people don’t manage to get in to any type of consulting firm at all. And then I have to sort of go to some backup options. And so that way it may well have been the case for me, things may still have turned out great, but it would have been a much slower process. So yes, I think that, I think there’s two things. I think there’s one thing is that when you have something on the side, or multiple things on the side, it keeps your brain engaged in different ways. And I think it just gives you more joy and more passion in everything you do, because there is just more balance. It doesn’t feel like, oh my god, the only thing I do when I’m not at home with family is this job. Obviously like, no, there’s a few other things I also do, but also just being part of a community of people who think differently pushes you in new directions as well. And, you know, I think that then makes you feel more comfortable about taking a new path or trying something new. So, you know, it’s, there’s a couple of different elements to it, but yeah, I definitely think it helped.

[00:12:15] Amardeep: I think it’s really interesting there as well as how, there are different events that we go to and these things where we’re not really sure if we’re going to go or not, and we end up missing somebody there that then changes the path that we take afterwards. And sometimes there’s a case of you go up to those different places and it’s creating opportunities with potential opportunities and if you don’t go, if you don’t put yourself out there, then you wouldn’t see those. And it doesn’t mean that every time you go to an event, then something’s going to happen, or if you didn’t go to an event, then you’ve missed out. But it’s just thinking about where do I want to go? And you don’t necessarily need to know exactly what you want to do, but if you started just hanging out with people that are in the same kind of field, the same kind of area that you want to get into, that’s going to help so much just because they can talk with you, they can help you learn a bit more, and once you’ve left medicine and obviously went into the consulting world, which is very high pressure, was there any times when you struggled with your balance there?

[00:13:11] Vishaal: In my first consulting job, I had a decent amount of balance. When I then moved to the next firm and things got very busy, then I didn’t have any balance at all. So, you know, I think that that was the one period in my life where I’ve experienced, close to burnout type situation that unfortunately far too many people suffer for far too long these days, but there was a, there was a period of about a year or so where that happened, and actually my performance dropped off. My concentration became poor. All of these things just because you’re at work more, but you’re just not kind of, you’re not sort of in a good place in terms of all of the other things that can keep you motivated at work. And so, yeah, I could see some absolute direct sort of implications of the long hours and the lack of balance. And you know, I think that, this is why sometimes having that thing on the side, or actually once you have kids, then hopefully that becomes a fantastic sort of driver to strive for balance, but even if you have that thing on the side. You know, I do remember even when I was working at OCNC, which is the second consultancy and I was working long hours, there was a period of time where actually I suddenly just had had too much, and I think that I went all in on this event we were organizing for Doctorpreneurs and actually, I found myself spending a few, there were moments where I was spending as much time planning for that as I was on doing the sort of project work. And clearly the project work took a hit in my performance, it was taking a hit, but I think I had almost sort of, hit the wall of the hours and the fact that there was just one thing consuming all of my time. And then it was just so exciting to me that I had this other thing that I could pivot to. And I just kind of went all in on the other thing, which is obviously a big problem, but yeah, you know, I think I was seeing there very clearly the impact of not having the balance and sort of just feeling all consumed by one thing, and it was not a very nice feeling and experience. Yes.

[00:15:23] Amardeep: I think that’s quite common where when people feel close to burnout, they sometimes end up working more focusing on, transfixed on certain things because it’s a distraction, right? You say it’s hard to deal with the emotions of being burnt out and it’s almost a shame kind of cycle that goes on rising. You should be able to manage it and why can’t you manage it? Instead of just getting the rest that need and instead be like, oh, I can do really well in this other thing instead. And you add even more to your plate and it’s quite weird how that works psychologically, I think, where, what, I wonder what drives us to do that, where we make ourselves even more stressed out because we’re thinking in our heads, if I can make this work, then that makes everything goes okay. And you think it was Doctorpreneurs at that time as that kind of idea of this can solve my problems, if I can make this work, then it doesn’t matter that I don’t enjoy my job or I’m getting burned out there. This will make everything better.

[00:16:15] Vishaal: Yeah. I mean, I think for me an element of what was happening is that I wanted to take back control. And so when you are burnt out, it’s often because you are being pulled in a lot of directions dictated by others, even if you’re running your own business, and I’ve not been in that position where, Doctorpreneurs is something we do on the side. It’s not a full blown business that sustains us full-time. But those who are like a bit like what you’re doing now, or other people running their own business. Depending on how you set everything up, then there are lots of people pulling on your time, whether it be investors or board members or whatever. Right. And so sometimes you shift to something else where you have the element of control. And I think that’s why, for example, people probably really enjoy sports as an outlet as well. And yeah, I do try to keep up with a decent amount of sport because most of what you do when you’re, when you’re performing is when you’re sort of doing your sport or whatever is very much in your control and it’s the moment there. And then that was the Doctorpreneurs thing as well for me. What I was working on then was run by me. It was in my control. And so it was just so nice, even though I was working hard. So for me, it wasn’t so much the working hard, but it was this just a sort of working hard out of my control. Yeah. By choice and on something that I wanted to. And so at least for me, that was what was contributing to the burnout feeling. It’s not so much just the hours as it was the nature of, or the context of it. Like someone telling you to do something, right. That’s when I think things can get very difficult to manage and deal with.

[00:17:47] Amardeep: Hi everyone. I hope you’re enjoying the episode so far. I want to take a quick break to ask you to check in with yourself. There’s many people struggling with balance and it’s nothing to be ashamed about. It’s tips that my guests might share can hopefully help you along the way, but if you already feel overwhelmed or burnt out, it’s probably best that you ask somebody for help too. For some, this might be a friend or family member, while others might feel like they have nobody they can talk to. If you’re one of these people, check out the link in the show notes, it’s for United for Global Mental Health. They’ve got health plans all across the world, with people willing to listen on the other side. It’s important to let somebody know how you’re feeling. Now, back to the show.

[00:18:23] In your new role, you’ve got much more freedom, right? And you’re leading the initiative, which you could hopefully tell us more about.

[00:18:28] Vishaal: I think that for me, I’ve always, since I left consulting, I’ve always looked for roles where I have the freedom to explore new ideas and have the autonomy to then kind of execute on them. And so that’s why it’s a large reason why I took this role. So, you know, YouTube, we’re basically setting up a health initiative for the UK and the idea, and so that’s the role that I’m currently in now. So trying to drive forward this initiative for the UK around health. And so, the basic premise is that we’re trying to make YouTube more of a destination for authoritative health content. There are lots of people accessing various types of health content on YouTube. It isn’t always clear what contents are authoritative, what isn’t. And so we’re working very hard on the product to make it easier for people to identify that content, which is authoritative and also then working very hard with external partners, predominantly the NHS organizations at the moment, in order to sort of encourage them to create more content for YouTube around specific topic areas where we have seen big gaps or what we call deserts, information deserts, where there is lot, there are lots of people searching for a particular topic, but there is a dirth of authoritative information around that topic. So yes, there’s information coming from random individuals, from private organizations, from entertainment companies even, whatever it might be, but not from truly authoritative health sources. And so we’re trying to cultivate YouTube as more of a destination for that type of, for that type of authoritative content. So, you know, that’s the basic premise, but in order to achieve that, you know, there are lots of different approaches that one can take and being a team of one, obviously I have cross-functional colleagues and then I also have equivalent of myself in other geographies who I work closely with, but ultimately in the UK, I’m on the hook for what, what we end up doing. It is a nice position to be in, in many ways, and I can kind of, yeah, develop a lot, potentially develop lots of different initiatives. And I think there’s always pros and cons when you are a team of one. But yeah, I think that that autonomy is fantastic. And it very much makes me feel like that persistence and not giving up on the thing that unlocked this opportunity makes sense because these are the rewards that I can now get by having stepped out of my comfort zone a little bit back then.

[00:20:52] Amardeep: And it’s a perfect blend of what you’ve done in your past, right, where you’ve got the medicine background, plus the consulting background and business background, and then it’s going into one job where there’s obviously much fewer people who’ve got both sets of skills. And now that you’re a team of one, and like you said, it’s, you’re on the hook, so there’s, one, there’s a lot of responsibility that comes with that, and you must also be able to determine your time a lot as well. How have you found that? Have you been able to create a schedule or structure that works for you or has there been something you’re still working on?”

[00:21:24] Vishaal: I absolutely love being able to set my own schedule. And actually, it’s funny this idea as you get more senior and you end up with, a PA or an EA is a very daunting prospect for me, and maybe I don’t really ever want to get there because suddenly everything is actually outside of your control. Right. You know, effectively, every meeting is important, that’s why you have an EA to arrange them. Not, you know, you’re no longer saying this is what I’m going to take and I’m not going to take this other meeting effectively. You’ve got to take them all. It’s just a question of when in the week you take them. And so, you know, I think you can get these sweet spots in life and in your career where you have your, I guess, slightly senior, you have some autonomy, but you aren’t so senior that basically there are so many things that you’re obligated to do, that you have an EA that basically arranges it all. Well, you said it’s a nice sweet spot to be in for sure. I think the challenge that comes with it is knowing whether you are focusing on the right things or not. And, you know, going back to what I was saying before about, sometimes it is good to give up. When you have a blank canvas role like this and the blank canvas calendar, you know for me, motivation has never been an issue. So, you know, I guess I appreciate it cause it could be for some people, but that’s not an issue for me. But for the issue for me is to say, I can happily fill my days and feel like I’m busy, but am I working on the things that are truly creating the most impact? And I think that, you know, it is quite hard in most jobs to measure impact on the day-to-day basis. And so in my job, it’s very, very difficult. In a way, it’s in a way, you could say, it’s easy to say, oh, the video’s doing well or not, but the truth is the videos will do well anyway. So if you think about the nature of YouTube, you know, it’s just such a beautiful platform, in the sense that it’s self-serve for people. So I need to think very carefully about what are the things that I can do that actually create impact that goes beyond the status quo of what would have happened anyway. Because anyway, YouTube is growing, anyway, more health organizations are getting onto the platform. So one of the things that you can do that are truly catalyst and when you’re a team of one that is much harder to figure out, because of course, when you have a bunch of people around you, they are challenging you more often, but also when you have lots of hierarchy directly invested in exactly what you’re doing, then I think that you’re under the pump to prove the value of what you’re doing, whereas, you know, what I have as well, I have is a hierarchy of people who look after a bunch of it. And actually just by virtue of the fact that health exists as a vertical, and that people are watching more and more health content, they are happy because that’s the one tick box for health, because there are seven or eight other tick boxes related to sports, related to the kids’ content, or the news content. Right. Whereas if I had someone or a team of people just looking at how to be like, no, actually we need to look at it again, five or six different parameters, and you’re only moving the needle on one or two of them. And so, yeah. You know, I think I think that it’s, it’s good, but that is a challenge around us all [inaudible]

[00:24:28] Amardeep: So in the future, is this the kind of role you want to continue doing? You said you don’t want any aid. Do you like these roles where you’ve got the freedom to do what you want, and obviously you need to share results, but as I hope you’ve got balance as well, because I guess if you’re answerable to anybody directly, it means that you spend more time with your kid. You can make time for activities outside of work as well. Is this the kind of role you want to do more of?

[00:24:49] Vishaal: Yeah. I mean this type of role is fantastic in terms of the ability to work on such a globally scaled platform and to attack a topic I’m really passionate about from a very different angle. You know, health care, even though I’ve left medicine is very much my area of passion. And to be able to attack it from this side of things is fascinating. So it’s a wonderful role. And you know, the truth is partly the nature of the role, but I would say partly being working at a company like Google, it gives you balance. I think there is an appreciation that there is much more to life than just working all the time. And actually, you know, basically there was much more about working smart than working hard, and this is something my wife is sort of always telling me. And I guess that that’s why she’s always been very good at what she’s done. It’s not about the hours that you put in and I think at Google, that’s very true. And so I do appreciate jokes about that. You know, I think that when you’ve got young kids, which is what I’ve got, then the balance is critical. And so I love the fact that I have good balance right now. I can imagine that in the future, as the kids get older, that I would not mind putting more time and hours into work and that might be being able to do more extracurricular things, or it might mean that I can take on larger roles with even more responsibility at work. But I do feel like sometimes people’s best years in that career are conflicted with the best years to spend with their children, and unfortunately the career often wins out and, you know, it’s a real shame. People don’t find that right balance when their kids are young. So I feel like this is the right type of balance to have when my kids are young, as they get older, I think I would be very, very keen to take on a bigger role, running a business unit, something having P and L responsibility, where there is more pressure. There is a team to manage. Probably you have to put more and more hours into that job and more of you into that job, but maybe, you know, your life circumstances allow you to do that. So it kind of feels like just before you have your kids and then after you have your kids, or if the kids were grown up, you have those two windows of opportunity to go hard on your career. And I think it can be really rewarding to do so, but yeah, I feel like I’m in a phase right now where like the balance is good and it’s nice to be able to spend time with the kids whilst they’re young,

[00:27:00] Amardeep: To the people listening today, you’ve had lots of experience in different industries and you found a good balance now. What’s one mindset shift you think they could make that will make a positive difference in their lives?

[00:27:11] Vishaal: I think work hard to kind of do something that you love. And I kind of feel like don’t worry as much about work-life balance and about how much money you earn and all about all of those things. Make the number one criteria be that you do something that you truly love, that you’re truly passionate about, because I found that when you aren’t doing that, everything else does end up falling into place, do something that you love, then you are going to be good at it, and you will do the smart work versus the hard, long hours work. And so you end up inevitably having a little bit more time for yourself. You will be a happier person and therefore in your personal life, you can be present and have impact. I’m sorry, not have impact, but you know, enjoy it. And then you do work that you love, then I think you’ll get results. You know, you can continue, then if you have more and more opportunity to do what you love, because you know, you, as you are successful in a job and in that company, more opportunities open up or outside of that company, more opportunities pop up. I really feel like everything stems from doing what you love. And that, I guess is a mindset shift for a lot of people, they just get stuck in something like, oh, it’s the money that’s good. Oh, the work life balance is good. Oh, it’s a really good company. But honestly, none of that should matter. Right. I mean, I’ve had jobs in all sorts of different sizes of company types of roles. And I guess that’s what I’ve realized, just got to do something and that’s exactly what you’re doing. Isn’t it? I mean, you are, you are doing that and even now, you’re then having to figure out within all the different commitments that you are making, outside now in your entrepreneurial career, which are the one or two or three that you really love, because even when you’re entrepreneurial and doing your own thing, it can be something that you don’t love, [unintelligible] because, oh, it does pay well, or because it’s a good brand name client to have for future clients and whatever else it might be. So, you know, I feel like that’s the biggest thing. I think that we, a lot of people have the privilege of education and therefore the opportunity to focus on something that they love. And so you should take advantage of that instead of just being stuck in something for a different reason. So, you know, basically enjoy the journey and the process of the work and not just the destination or the outcome of what the work is affording you to do.

[00:29:41] Amardeep: Perfect. Where can people listening today, hear more about you and what you’re up to?

[00:29:45] Vishaal: I’m in LinkedIn, so, you know, really happy to help. Help anyone or connect with anyone or share ideas, discuss things with anyone on LinkedIn. Reach out to me that and please do also check out the Doctorpreneurs website that may be a source of inspiration for any of you guys, especially those of you thinking more about healthcare innovation. How do you start a new business in the health care space? We’re looking for opportunities in the healthcare space. Doctorpreneurs.com is another place to have a look at to see some of the stuff that I’m working on, or yeah, as I said, LinkedIn, so happy to help connect with anyone that would like to.

[00:30:15] Amardeep: And the final question is what’s one small thing that’s brought you joy recently?

[00:30:19] Vishaal: Actually, what I’m going to say is being told that I had to look after my kids full time for a week without, with little or minimal help from the other half. And I think my other half puts in way more than I do on a regular basis with the kids. So this was a week where we flipped the script. It was only a week, but actually it was a lot of fun to be fully responsible for these two kids running riot at home for a week, and they were ill, had diarrhea or whatever. So we were stuck at home, but we didn’t have any help, and so it was all the cooking, we’re sorting all of that out for the kids but it was a lot of fun. And I didn’t feel that hard work at all. So, yeah, it was quite nice to get that really quality time. It’s good.

[00:31:05] Amardeep: If you’re listening on Apple Podcasts, I’d love it If you could leave me a five star review, it really helps get the message out further. Wherever you’re listening, it would be awesome If you could subscribe and share in your social media channels. If you want to see more of my work and advice, you can find all of the links in the show notes.

Thank you again for listening and I hope you have a lovely day.