Why YOU SHOULDN’T FAKE IT TILL YOU MAKE IT - Go for Authenticity and Connection w/ Varun Jindal

[00:00:00] Varun: There, there is no substitute for like in-person connection. Like I, I fundamentally believe that, and definitely, I, I think there’s a lot of value in that idea sharing and just that there, there are senses that are not being addressed when you’re screen to screen. Even if it’s, even if it’s two people you’re sitting right next to each other and working on your laptop, there’s something about that presence that can’t be through like a webcam. 

[00:00:36] Amardeep: Welcome to the Mindful and Driven Podcast, where we help you to not lose sight of what’s really important whilst chasing your dreams.Today’s guest is Varun Jindal. He’s the co-founder of both Punjabbawockeez and Bolly Shake. He helped take Bolly Shake from 0 to 700,000 followers across social media platforms and make it a hub for all things Bollywood on the web. He’s played a key part in spreading the culture across the internet, across different countries, and across different parts of the Indian diaspora. He also worked as a social media strategist for PepsiCo. and helped massively increase sets of following and recently he was Medium social media manager.It was a pleasure to get Varun’s opinions and his outlook on life. After this interview he actually quit his job so expect some ground-breaking revelations.   

Welcome Varun. It’s a pleasure to have you on Mindful and Driven. 

[00:01:21] Varun: Hi. How’re you doing? 

[00:01:22] Amardeep: Good. Thanks. Yeah. So we’re having a bit of a chat just before we started recording there and you were telling me some quite great stories and I thought, we needed to get this recorded. 

[00:01:30] Varun: Yeah. 

[00:01:31] Amardeep: So what we’re talking about is some of the different problems that people have where there’s two different trains of thought, and it’s not necessarily that one is better than the other, and you can go through the example in a moment, but do you find that any advice that you get quite often that you disagree with and it doesn’t need to apply to everybody but that advice doesn’t work for you? 

[00:01:53] Varun: I mean, we live in a world now where if you look hard enough for any given problem, you’re going to find two completely opposite solutions, and in many, you know, many times it’s very binary and you’re like, okay, well that’s clearly like one route is much better than the other, but more often than not, when it comes to self-help, you know, life hacks, communication, whatever it is, a lot of it can be very circumstance and a lot of it can be very like case by case. And so in, in terms of, you know, like advice, I think having like a diverse, like a set of people giving you kind of different perspectives, I think is great, and then it can kind of boil down to what feels very authentic to you. So for me, the authenticity is really what matters and I think I tend to gravitate, you know both in terms of like very surface level content or people to, you know people who are giving really great advice for organizational sort of strategy policy, and then everything in between, you know, my, my field, I do social media marketing and a pillar of that I think is authenticity, and authenticity, I think is kind of that core to get back to. 

[00:03:08] Amardeep: And I guess that comes back to some advice that people give or say fake it till you make it, and I’m guessing that’s not advice that you like and you don’t think it’s the right path for many people to take. 

[00:03:17] Varun: Yeah. You know, I think like there, there is some value in that, in, in that you know, sometimes you have to kind of play the part to get into the room. Right. But, to, to be someone that is a bit of a stretch from who you are or to, you know to just sort of like the, do the ends, justify the means? Right. You know, somewhere along the way, it will catch up to you. Right. And you, you see that often like a lot, and of course in my world For the longest time, you know, brands, organizations, they sort of chased followers and they spent all these loads of money on getting new followers, but they didn’t stop to think that, you know, I’d rather just have 10 people really care about what I have to say rather than 10,000 or just sort of there. And you’re in this strange place where now you’re trying to sweep up and you’re trying to clean what was there. So, you know I mean, in my experience, I’ve been on the startup side, you know, with a company like Bolly Shake, and I’ve also been with Frito-Lay and PepsiCo. And I think you know, if it, if it rings true to you you know, you can always, the general gravitation is you over promise and sometimes you’ll under-deliver. But, but I do think, you know, just If you, if it feels right to you, you’ll scramble to get the pieces together. I’m a big believer in that. 

[00:04:46] Amardeep: In the past with Bolly Shake, cause obviously you did grow sort of a massive audience, and it does sort of authentic too, because you are sharing things that you personally love, or the team loves. And it resonates with the different people around the world who were into that side of dance. But did you find any point that you had that problem where you started to get more about the following, that the new authenticity. And how did you kind of revert back and go back to that more authentic path? 

[00:05:10] Varun: Yeah, I think, I think for, for, for us, you know, we’ve always been managing it in a capacity where we didn’t want to have too many cooks in the kitchen. Right. And so, you know, my, my, the founder of the company, his name, Rohit, and I, he, we’ve always believed in like what our core mission is, which is sharing people’s stories in a very like deeply authentic way. And people express their stories through their art. And even though the bread and butter of course is dance, people express it through music, through style, through comedy, through beauty. And what we saw was that by building a community, they will follow you over the years. So the difference is when you’re building an audience, you’re only focused on like one channel. And once that channel is gone or abandoned, you’re kind of a sitting duck. God forbid, you know, you, you have a community, God forbid, for any reason, your page gets taken down, it could be for whatever reason. If everyone leaves in that moment, then you did not build something very sustainable. And so for us, you know, we decided to, I kind of joke about him, I’m from Texas and I’m over here, the barbecue is done very like low and slow. So for us putting in that tender love and care into the community and that personal aspect of it, that did not change at all. So from the point where we had two followers to now like on Instagram, I think we’re like 725 – 726,000. That personal touch is still there. We have people, there are no generic responses. There are likes, comments, responses to people’s DMs. It’s a person doing that. Right. And whether you have 2 million followers or you just got married and you wanted to share your dance, you know, with the world and what a joyful day that was, we’re here for it. You know? And I think the world needs that now more than ever. 

[00:07:38] Amardeep: And I guess along that path, I just said it, it started off so humbly where you had only a few followers and you slowly got the community, and I can imagine if something grows that fast, it can become quite overwhelming and you would obviously have to invest more time in it. You’d have to grow a team and all of those different stresses that come with it. Was there a point where you almost hit a breaking point and the stress became quite hard to deal with? And what happened then? What did you go through and how did you come up on the other side? 

[00:08:07] Varun: A lot of it boils down to like expectations versus reality, right? The more, you know, a traditional startup, you know, as you, as you, you know, bring investors in, you have different perspectives, you have various agendas, they’re holding you at certain growth metrics, right? When you have full control over something, you can set the pace. So it wasn’t necessarily a point where there was sort of like a burning out or like anything. I do remember, you know, I’m, I’m wired, you know, I’m a textbook extrovert, so I’m wired to want that sort of human interaction. And you know, being based in Texas, there was always a little bit of sense of FOMO, right? Of like, well, there’s all these cool things going on in New York or LA. Or in London or Mumbai, and so I remember, you know, I did a little bit of the business development at Bolly Shake and it took me to India for like six months, I remember. In you know, it was like 2017 and I, it was, it was a great ride, but I was, I was missing kind of that in-person interactions. And that’s actually what sort of took me to FritoLay. And I, I joined in the company PepsiCo I joined them in 2019, and that really came out of a place, not that, you know, Bolly Shake was still, it felt like a, like, it was in a very good place, but I personally was just missing, I mean, it’s strange talking about it now because everyone is remote now, but I missed, you know, the office environment and I missed, that, that social component and solving, I and I also had this theory that if I can take what I did with Bolly Shake, and if I can apply that to something as big as Doritos or, you know, can I do that for smaller brands that FritoLay has. Is, is that workable? Is that doable? I knew, I wouldn’t know until I joined. 

[00:10:16] Amardeep: I think sometimes on the online community and an online world, the voice of the extrovert is ironically heard less because the people most likely to say, sit down and write an article are the people who are more likely to be interested. And the pandemic changed that a little bit because we would have more time inside. But I find quite interesting is often when I read online or when you see articles, it’s very much from the introvert’s perspective of how everybody should work from home, how work from home so much better, and I can do this, I can do that. When for a lot of people, there are a lot of experts out there. There are a lot of people who want to go to the office and it’s weird, I guess mudslinging exercise where some people say, oh, people just want to go to the office because they want to talk with a water cooler and they don’t want to do any work. So, but what’s wrong with wanting human interaction? There’s nothing wrong with that end. Sometimes there’s conversations you have, which are planned, which are just spontaneous, can sometimes you get the best ideas. And it’s some companies myself, right? I used to, before the pandemic, I used to work in a company, and I used to be up to work with colleagues and you have ideas and you just have random conversations. And now that I work for myself, I don’t have that. And I miss that and I can’t collaborate with people, but it’s different to being on the same team or somebody where your goal is this same thing and you’re both aligned in that. And it’s something which. I’m looking into it. Like how do I build that community in that way? And for people listening, who want to go and do their own thing, especially if they’re experts, it’s always mindful to think like that, is it better for you potentially to look at a partnership or something like that, where you have a team and you can work with them and you can have chats with them. If there’re some quirks that, you know, that you need for yourself, and yeah, it’s, it’s a weird thing that I’ve noticed that recently, it’s almost, there’s a shaming exercise going on for people who enjoy working with others and it’s just like you said, it’s how you’re wired. Some people prefer sitting at home by themselves. Some people prefer working in an office or in a busy environment. 

Hi everyone. I hope you’re enjoying the episode so far. I want to take a quick break to ask you to check in with yourself. There’s many people struggling with balance and it’s nothing to be ashamed about. It’s tips that my guests might share can hopefully help you along the way, but if you already feel overwhelmed or burnt out, it’s probably best that you ask somebody for help too. For some, this might be a friend or family member, while others might feel like they have nobody they can talk to. If you’re one of these people, check out the link in the show notes, it’s for United for Global Mental Health. They’ve got health plans all across the world, with people willing to listen on the other side. It’s important to let somebody know how you’re feeling. Now, back to the show. 

Now you’re at Medium, right? So at the moment, you’re not going to the office. It’s all remote. Is that something you want to kind of bring in, in the future where you want to collaborate with people and work with them in person more? 

[00:12:58] Varun: Yeah, absolutely. That’s something I kind of brought up even like on my first week. You know, I, I connected with our head of people ops at Medium. I’m like, is this thing forever? He’s like, it’s so hard to say. Right. And you know, it actually kind of reminded me, is this, this pillar, that’s kind of like my north star, which is facts, not plans, right? A lot of companies you saw, oh, we plan on opening here where we plan on mandating this. Plans have no meaning in this world. And when you look at the facts, the fact is today, Medium is fully remote and, you know, we have people everywhere. And I think it was a really cool and amazing. We, we do have a little bit of a strong hold in west coast and northeast, which is, you know, no surprise there, but you know, it’s, it’s something that I, I remember having to go, not having to go, like I wanted to actively reach out to people outside my team, outside my department and just get a pulse from them. Like, how do you feel about like our social? What would be your dream if we were to share something? And to, to be able to bring that kind of energy, it actually kind of like threw some people off a little bit. They were kind of like, whoa, like, like who is this kid? And like, like he’s like this fired up about all this stuff, and but overall the sentiment lean, you know, with a lot of interest and positivity I, you know, I, I think for me at the bare minimum, I, I think it would be nice once a year, once a quarter or something like that for people to come together, and you know, what that looks like in terms of the size and the where and the, how it’s very hard to tell. But ideally it’d be amazing, you know maybe have the sort of like a quarter, quarterly get together for like a smaller pod and like you know, once a year sort of company like retreat or whatever. Because we, we did have. My first agency, we had that and it, we were growing, we were part of a much larger org, but we were like very small, very new, but we are growing rapidly. So each passing year, the annual get together would be like 18 people to 44 people to 85 people. And by the time I left, it was, you know, just shy of like 200. Right. But. It does realign the sense of purpose and there, there is no substitute for like in-person connection. Like I, I fundamentally believe that. And that’s, that’s a very difficult stance to take in, in a world that is so complicated and, and everything, definitely, I think there’s a lot of value in that idea sharing and just that there are senses that are not being addressed when you’re screen to screen, you know? And you know, it’s, it’s hard to describe, but it’s so enriching when you’re, when you’re just like, even if, even if it’s two people you’re sitting right next to each other and working on your laptop, there’s something about that presence, that can’t be through like a webcam, at least I believe that. 

[00:16:25] Amardeep: Yeah. I know you mean there as well, because I’m have lots of video calls with people all across the world, but it’s not quite the same as sitting down with somebody and having a chat or a coffee together. And I’m trying to work out in my own life about how I get that balance right in terms of having the time and seeing, I’m trying to make more connections in the kind of space that I’m in within London, because I can meet up with them, have lunch say, for example, earlier this week. I met with two like authors and we kind of sat down and it was really nice because we could just relax. Whereas I think when you’re on a video call, you never quite feel as the same in terms of social setting. It feels a bit more meeting like. You can’t just go to the pub or you can’t just go to a coffee. I think it opens people up a little bit more, but a lot of people who are this age but don’t necessarily want to be more open. So it’s that it’s that difficult balance. And like I said, it could be something where, it’s a voluntary thing. So people who want to go can go and that way it’s the best of both worlds for everybody. 

[00:17:27] Varun: I know for me, the first thought I had is when can I find myself? Cause I mean, I haven’t been to London since I was like a kid. My first thought is like, I already have like a working list of like, who do I want to see in that is before the, what do I want to do? Or where do I want to go? Is if I’m, if I’m going to spend some time in London, there are people who have been in my life in some capacity that I want to meet with. And like you said, I want to, you know, go to a pub and share a beer with, or, or just, you know, just have a cup of tea and like, and like, just soak in nature. Right. You know, obviously that doesn’t have to be in like a crowded club or a restaurant anymore, but there, there is that side of it. Yeah. You know, there, I think community building is something that even people within your community, as you’re building through, you know, Mindful and Driven, you know, people will have a pulse of like, oh, who’s where, and someone’s from Germany or someone’s from, and, and I think you know just having a sort of public place of people, knowing where people are, I think it was pretty amazing, you know, and, and I. I haven’t experienced that too much on the international side with Bolly Shake, but there are people who have been, who were from Spain and they were in like Nepal. And these are like two Bolly Shake dancers who got together. And I think there’s so much, like love to be shared there. And you know, the same thing goes, I think, for any brand, like people have a love for a certain brand. They have a love for a certain celebrity, certain music, it brings you together. And I think that’s why, you know, concerts like a virtual concert is not like a thing. Like a concert is a concert, and even if you attended solo, right, you attended stag. You are amongst other super fans and you are sharing in something so deep that, you know, nothing, nothing can substitute for that. So yeah, you know, it’s a, it’s definitely something probably in the second half of the year, I’ll probably start to address, is how do I sort of tick off those boxes? How do I check those boxes off to, for me to like, get that, and if not, then it would be a lot more of these types of conversations where I really need to fill out my week and, and pick people’s brains, get their perspectives and, and sort of just absorb and soak it all in. 

[00:20:00] Amardeep: What’s interesting as well, now is the pandemic has put us in a certain position in a certain world, but touch wood, that’s going to end sooner or later, things are going to be, might not going back to normal, but it won’t be because of restrictions anymore. The restrictions will go away, and if there’s changes in the way people work, it’s more because of choice now. And let’s say once things are back to everything’s allowed again and things back the way it was before. What other things are you working on in terms of your balance? Like, let’s, will it and you can meet people up in real life. Are there other things you’re working on too,? 

[00:20:38] Varun: Yeah. I, it’s funny, you mentioned that. I, sorry. I, I keep a journal that’s like separate from my main one, that is purely just ideas. And for me, the biggest challenge is making sure I sometimes have to just walk them away, to be honest. Ideally I like that. There’s something on my plate. Like a, there’s a main gig and it’ll site. Right. There’s where you’re investing a lot of your time and energy and your sort of side hustle. Right? After really building like a strong foundation for the startup, I, it took me a little time emotionally to accept that Bolly Shake is going to pivot to be my side hustle, but I also knew that I wanted to grow certain skill sets and connect with people, larger links than just that community. So for me, you know, at the bare minimum, I think this year, and by next year, Medium, Medium being my main priority and Bolly Shake sort of playing second fiddle is, is really it. I think, you know, my mind, cause it’s wired like a marketer, a lot of times it immediately goes to, if I want to start something, well, how should it look and how should it feel? And I’ve had to over the years, like reign that in and in a book really helped me with that. It’s called Start With Why, which is a Simon Simon Sineck and yeah, it’s, you know, what is it as you’re really hoping to sort of achieve? What is your purpose and sort of your MO there? You know, so for me, I think right now, so many people are doing so many amazing things. Whatever I can do in the loosest capacity, I would love to just get involved with, collaborate with, even if it’s me connecting this person to this person and that’s all my role was. That’s okay. So I think right now, a lot of it is touching base and seeing how people are doing. And there are people who, somewhere along the way, stop doing their passion project or something, and some sometimes just asking, hey, you know, like, how are you doing? Is it, did it come from a place of just burnout? Or like, are you just giving it a break or like, what’s going through your mind? Cause at one point, you know, that was like a very active sort of like cool thing. I think one thing that I find very interesting right now is we’re, we’re seeing more representation from our community and entertainment. I think that is pretty amazing and pretty cool because one thing I’ve never, I didn’t necessarily love about the, the Bollywood community is, is like there’s a lot of gatekeeping, right? There’s a lot of like, if you don’t, if you’re not part of this old order, if you’re not in this like inner circle, then you’re not gonna make it. And I think if, if production companies don’t like, get it together they should see by example, like what these streaming platforms are doing and stuff. And so that has been a joy for me. And I think whatever role I can play in terms of just whether it’s meeting someone or connecting someone or learning about something new. I think that’s probably like in my, in my personal life where I’ll probably end up spending my time, 

[00:24:22] Amardeep: I guess like, after those few years, what’s the kind of successful lifestyle, what would that look like to you? Is it this idea where you always keep a main project, a side project and keeping fit and healthy and is that, that’s what the goal is?. 

[00:24:36] Varun: Yeah. I think, I think for me, it’s getting to a place of like consistency, you know whatever that looks like. Right. I think once upon a time there, there was this sort of doe-eyed sort of interest and like, oh, it’d be amazing to like, you know, wake up at 4:00 AM and, you know, get a run in and, and this and that, but, you know, find what feels good. We’ll find what feels very real to you, and really continue to show up. You know, a Malcolm Gladwell said, you know, putting in your 10,000 hours for a handful of things. I have done that in my life and I, I see why, and, but there are a lot of things, you know, I’m, I’m still, I’m still in the beginning of it, you know? And so I think, you know, for me, I think the success side of it is you know, it is certainly shifted in the last few years, like once again, prior to the pandemic, this sort of a hunger for corporate growth, like growth within your organization and sort of the, the typical, what they call the American dream, like it kind of opened the last few years, kind of opened my eyes to it that, you know yeah, the, you know, you don’t need too much to be happy to be honest. So for me, if I can, I think for me, the biggest bonus has be to connect with, with people more in the next few years, the work will always be there to be honest. Right. But the, for me, if I can do kind of the more human interaction in the next few years, that for me is, will be a huge win to be honest. My, my my family is in the Indian clothing business. And so Everyone talks about the supply chain crisis. And obviously India is no stranger to that. So what is it that I can do to really support a community in India? Right. Can I bring, like a unique sort of process or like thinking to, to something that could be scalable there and really make an impact and then help people out. Right. And so I think th that’s probably like beyond three years, I think it’s, that’s like a more, I think, five years down the road type of type of thing, but you know, who knows? Like, like I said, you know circumstances changed so much, like you know, I, my original plan to be at PepsiCo was much more longterm, you know, those supposed to be a shift to New York and a switch over to the beverage side and all these things, but you know, when, when changes happen, they happen, you know? And, and so it’s, it’s hard. It’s hard to say, you know, I have a wedding and like a few trips on the books and even that I don’t even know what’s going to happen. 

[00:27:27] Amardeep: You mentioned there as well with how things are going to change obviously but sometimes, you know, in your head, these are some of the things, your longer term goals you want to work towards. And they all seem very healthy in terms of like, how do you make a difference in the longer term, rather than trying to put yourself under pressure now to say, I need to get this done now. And I think that’s what sometimes people do is they put too much immediacy on some of their targets, which were then just unrealistic and then they have this guilt feeling like you mentioned before and what’s some of the mindset shifts you think people can make, who are listening, that would make that positive difference in their lives, that kind of small nudge in the right direction. 

[00:28:04] Varun: Yeah. So it sounds a bit harsh, but rock bottom is never, you’re, you’re quite far away from rock bottom and it’s a strange mental exercise to do, but when you start to like dig that up and you’re facing like, what is, what is this thing I’m worried about? More often than not, you’re quite far removed from that. As humans, you know, basic what we need is water and food and a little shelter, and you know, as, as we start to grow in our lives, we want more and more and more and more, but, you know, anyone who’s unhappy and, and, or, or not, anything less than happy with the work that they do or, or relationship or something is, you know, really look at what the, what the, what is the worst case scenario. And the worst case scenario is never all that bad or more often than not, can be also very freeing, you know, because the relationships has certainly changed in the last few years. And you know, I can only imagine what children are going through as well. So I, I think one advice would be is, you know, don’t, don’t let that fear like cripple you because you know, a child is worried, oh, if I fail this exam, what will happen? Oh, I’ll get punished. But, but really understanding the intent behind that. Right. And the parent also seeing like, well, why is my child’s struggling with this class? Sometimes digging a little bit, I think gets you there. And so what am I worried about? Well, you know, if I quit, what will happen? like I can’t pay rent for this flat. Okay. I may have to shift with my family for a few months, you know, you’re, you’re so far removed from and this is coming from a place of privilege. You’re rather far removed from things being quite dire. Right. And sure. It forces you to have a pulse of your skill set. What do you want to like learn and grow, but don’t let that fear cripple you. And I think a lot of people were very scared for a bit. Well, what if I quit my job and I started doing freelancing and I think you are a testament to that. And certainly you can speak to that. What if I decide to do my own consulting business, rather than give 100% of my time to this company? What if I took some time off? What does that mean? Like is, is the world going to stop spinning? No. It’s all part of your story. Take three months off, take a year off. Like do, do what you need to do to look out for yourself and your loved ones, but, you know, I think for the longest time we were all chasing this grind of this big house and this nice car and well, every year I needed a new iPhone. And so, and trust me, I am, I’m not a minimalist by any standard. I, I have a deep passion for men’s wear and, you know, I love kind of these lovely experiences and traveling and dining and all these things. But what I realized is, you know you know, like take, take stock, but, but don’t, don’t be so afraid. Right. You know rocking the boat or shaking the snow globe is never so bad. The dust settles, right? When you, when you shake the snow globe, right? Give it some time. If you get back to a default and no one will fault you for that, I think that’s one, like blessing in this whole chaos of the world, no one will fault you you for taking some time. No one will fault you for focusing on your family or focusing on a family business, I might be struggling. It’s all part of your story. Right? And, and so I, I think that’s probably something people are so scared to look at that, oh, like my biggest fear, is it like, what is it being without a home? Is it, will I not know where my next meal comes from? You know? And a lot of times their stress about their relationships or their money management. It really cripples them from thinking in a much more open way. And so it sounds weird, but like thinking about the worst case scenario can, can kind of kind of rattle your cage in a good way. I think. 

[00:32:29] Amardeep: I think it comes down to the detail itself, right? Because sometimes it’s the cloud of worry, whereas like what would happen if this happens? But you don’t actually think about the reality. And sometimes what you’ve got to do is kind of live in that worst case scenario. Like what would that actually happen with? What did they look like if this happened? Like if these scenarios happened, what would they actually do? And people avoid that cause it, cause it can feel uncomfortable, but sometimes that’s better than just having the, like the opaque worry. So it’s like dive into that. Think about it, explore it, like, okay, let’s say you lost your job. What would that actually mean? Okay. So I need to look for a new job. How would that look like? Would you be, what would you go into, what would you try to search who’s in your network that potentially could reach out to? 

[00:33:16] Varun: Right. 

[00:33:17] Amardeep: And if you kind of have a mental exercise where you imagine that the worst case story has happened. 

[00:33:22] Varun: Yeah. 

[00:33:23] Amardeep: And then, okay, this has happened. What would I do? It can make you realize, ah! there’s always going to be something you can do, and obviously, it depends on the scenario. I feel some people, the worst case scenario can be quite catastrophic, and sometimes it is worth worrying about, but for many scenarios or for many situations, especially for people listening who are potentially in good jobs and they’ve got good relationships, whatever, sometimes it is a lot more that you can recover from then you might imagine. And the same people who have testaments that in terms of the trauma they’ve been through. They, it doesn’t, it’s not something to look forward to. It’s not something you want to happen, but you can try and take inspiration from other people, who’ve been through what you’ve been through and it made out like you shouldn’t give up hope and it’s been a pleasure to talk to you today, Varun. Where can people listening hear more about you and more about what you’re up to? 

[00:34:16] Varun: Yeah. Absolutely. So you can find me on most of these social media platforms. My initials are V K J. 6 2 2. And you can find me at LinkedIn, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, Medium, and you can always email me as well. And it’s you know, just my first initial V last name, Jindal [email protected]. So no one’s getting my number on this. 

[00:34:45] Amardeep: And the final thing I always ended up on is, what’s one small thing that’s brought you joy recently? 

[00:34:50] Varun: Honestly, I mean, I know it sounds cheesy, but it’s is looking forward to this. I know we, we kind of had to reschedule one or two times. But you know, for me, this is, this is what gives me life, you know? And so just to be able to like talk to people again, without any sort of agenda, without any sort of meeting without any sort of note. It’s it’s it’s it’s amazing. It’s, it’s truly a joy. So I, I appreciate that. And I’m very excited to see where the podcast goes and all the other endeavors you do. So yeah. Thank you for bringing this joy to me. 

[00:35:31] Amardeep: If you’re listening on Apple Podcasts, I’d love it If you could leave me a five star review, it really helps get the message out further. Wherever you’re listening, it would be awesome If you could subscribe and share in your social media channels. If you want to see more of my work and advice, you can find all of the links in the show notes. 

Thank you again for listening and I hope you have a lovely day.