Overcome YOUR SELF-DOUBT By Finding Your Minimum Viable Fear w/Tiago Henriques

Transcript

[00:00:00] Tiago: Yeah, I really liked that. It’s like, how can I break that down into things that are a lot less scary to me? Like see this as a stair, right? If the next step of the stair is too, too high, you know, and you cannot really go up there. Cool. How can I create, you know, like something between, like, we’re going to put a box there there’s like easier to manage and easier to go up, right? So I think that’s a good way to visualize it.

[00:00:28] Amardeep: Welcome to the Mindful and Driven Podcast, where we help you to not lose sight of what’s really important whilst chasing your dreams.Today’s guest is Tiago Henriques. He’s a Brazilian content creator with over a quarter of a million Instagram followers. He uses a unique and playful tone in which his audience loves. He has recently released a book and he has his own podcast too but unfortunately, all of it is in Portuguese. He is hoping to make the leap to English content where I’m sure he will gain many loyal fans too. 

This is the most that I laughed at in any of the podcast recordings and I hope you enjoy listening.

Welcome Tiago. It’s great to have you here. You’re the first person to record from my flat.

[00:00:59] Tiago: Uh, I’m flattered. I’m flattered

[00:01:02] Amardeep: For the people back home, how’s Tiago [unintelligible] it’s actually quite a funny story. So we both live in Stratford in east London and in one of my stories on Instagram, he noticed that I live really close to him, so it was kind of a little bit scary, a little bit stalkerish,

[00:01:17] Tiago: a little creepy, yeah.

[00:01:19] Amardeep: But becoming great friends and I play football with him and it’s one of those weird things, how social media can make you friends in real life, so I’m glad you sent me that stalkery message.

[00:01:30] Tiago: Yeah, it’s true. Yeah. Thanks for inviting me here. Very happy to be here. First podcast in English. Podcast slash video. So very flattered and yeah, it’s one of those good coincidences. You know, this shows us how social media is great for like meeting like-minded people and, yeah. Pleasure to be here.

[00:01:48] Amardeep: As I mentioned, most of his content is in Portuguese cause he’s originally from Brazil, so I’ve seen his content and it, it looks amazing. But I have no idea what actually means. It’s very good to the visuals. So one thing I would ask you is what’s some common advice you disagree with?

[00:02:06] Tiago: Yeah. So common advisor I disagree with has a lot to do with my content, actually. I talk a lot about creativity, but I like to have an empathetic vision on that topic, so it’s like a mixture of creativity and personal development and a common piece of advice I really tend to disagree with is something we hear very often, which is the classic just do it as a universal solution to things, when people are scared to like, oh my god, I’m really scared of quitting my job, I’m really scared of, you know, I don’t know, going on a date, it could be anything for your life, and then some people just approach it as a just do it, like ignore what you’re feeling and all the this, we know all this means. And I don’t think that it’s like something that shouldn’t be taken as a universal solution. Obviously in my service, some people might work very well, but for me, for instance, it has always paralyzed me and I always needed to find a process that perhaps expose me gradually to nothing that scares me or, you know, find a way to do that, that it’s not just do it. So that’s definitely something that bothers me when I hear it. And again, I know it works for some people, but we shouldn’t take this so extremely, in my opinion,

[00:03:15] Amardeep: Sometimes I think the best thing to do is just do it, but just do it small, do something small. So don’t go straight for quitting your job and becoming an entrepreneur.

[00:03:23] Tiago: Yeah.

[00:03:24] Amardeep: Try it on the side first or test it out first because that’s one of the things I think people often don’t see is they think there’s this big transformational life change that happens overnight, but often it’s because they did smaller things beforehand, but nobody ever saw them.

[00:03:39] Tiago: So true.

[00:03:40] Amardeep: And that kind of distorts our image of what people are doing because when they’re small, you’re not paying attention to them.

[00:03:47] Tiago: Yeah.

[00:03:48] Amardeep: You only start paying attention to them once they’re massive or once they’ve got a following.

[00:03:52] Tiago: That is so sure. I like to call that concept, the minimum viable fear. It’s like, if I’m scared of something and I cannot do it. Cool. What’s a minimum viable fear I can face today? And that’s great. Like, it feels like progress. Right?

[00:04:04] Amardeep: Yeah. Yeah. And it’s the same for different areas of life. So for example, it’s all about dating, if you’re really scared to go on a date with somebody, maybe instead you go on a, like, you meet a stranger for something that’s not romantic.

[00:04:15] Tiago: Yeah.

[00:04:16] Amardeep: But just get your confidence up in meeting strangers.

[00:04:18] Tiago: Exactly.

[00:04:19] Amardeep: And that might be less scary for you than going on a pure date.

[00:04:22] Tiago: Yeah. I really liked that. It was like, how can I break that down into things that are a lot less scary to me? Like see this as a stair, right? If the next step of the stair is too, too high, you know, when you can ultimately go up there. Cool. How can I create, you know, like something in between, like can I put a box there there’s like easier to manage and easier to go up. Right. So I think that’s a good way to visualize it.

[00:04:45] Amardeep: The concept Tiago mentioned there with the minimum viable fear, think about in your own life. So I know a lot of people listening are going to be wanting to make changes in their life. They want to do something new, but they’re a bit scared about how to do it. How can you start? So for example, I know some people start their social media pages under a pseudonym and that way, it’s a lot less scary for them. So it always different little tips and tricks you can use to just make things a little bit easier because you don’t need to go all out there. So for example, for me, when I saw someone writing, I didn’t think anybody was ever going to read it. If I did, I probably wouldn’t have used my real name. So it’s just something to think about.

[00:05:21] Tiago: Yeah. I like that concept quite a lot. I also had a project where I was an anonymous and you know, that taught me a lot because at the end of the day, the knowledge is transferable and you’re not going to lose that energy and time you applied, you invested. You’re just going to, you know, carry it out for the next project. So even if you evolve the product at the end of the day as well, like, you know, perhaps in the beginning, you don’t appear so much, you write more and then you start showing up if you want to. If you need to. You know? So I like that. I quite like that.

[00:05:48] Amardeep: Yeah. That’s what I’m doing now. Right. So I started off just writing. I never appeared in front of the camera. And then now slowly I’m doing more and more video stuff, more, more podcast stuff. It’s helped because people might look at it and they see me today and think I started like this and I didn’t. It took me a long time to go get the confidence to do what I’m doing now.

[00:06:06] Tiago: Yeah, I think for me, it was also quite gradual concept like, just for being like, just from being here, just to talk English, it’s something that’s, it’s like scared me a lot more a long time ago. So now for instance, I’m chilled, cause I know you is not like a no-name person, you know? And I took, I took, I’ve taken steps before,

right. I created a content in Portuguese. I create content in video and podcasts and now I’m, it’s easier for me to just be here and taking this next step, which is like cool. Let’s answer questions and let’s have a chat in English, you know, which is new. So I like that process. Like I find it quite fascinating and it shows that it’s actually more accessible, let’s say, to create this content and just show ideas online. It’s not just for extroverts or something that’s definitely anyone could like, can have a go at.

[00:06:54] Amardeep: Yeah, because you did a lot of side projects before your current brand, right? Can you talk a bit about that? What you started off with?

[00:07:01] Tiago: Yeah, sure. It could definitely be like any sort of projects. I always like to see side projects as this way of multiplying yourself and trying different interests, cause I think it’s just human nature to have lots of interests, although we do live in a specialized culture, you know, you’ve got a job, whatever people expect you to be specialized, we still like photography, and we still like, I don’t know, to, to make miniatures of stuff. I don’t know. You can have any hobbies and interests you, like, I think side projects are great for you to experiment with those and validate if you actually like doing the things. So I had like different projects from like, I dunno, working with a friend of mine, who’s in IT and we developed like this sort of app to, it wasn’t really an app, but it’s just like analyzes your WhatsApp messages and then leaves you see rankings of people like, this is not mostly 9% of the chat, or this is a blah, blah, blah. You know? So you could just grade assumptions based on, you know, reading the data. I did the design, he did the programming, and then I don’t know, there’s another project which played with languages. I’m quite into languages. I really like to learn languages. So it was basically like puns combining Portuguese and English. So it’s a quite niche thing, but it was fun to do, you know? And it’s always like exploring things I like, cause I feel like sometimes people are restricted like, oh, this is my job, and this is what I do, and then they have this frustration because they’re not exploring things that they want to and side projects are a great way to do that.

[00:08:23] Amardeep: Yeah. And we’re on your Portuguese pun thing there. So you obviously know that I worked for a few Portuguese people in the past. So, what I used to do is learn some of these phrases, and one, for example, let’s say somebody looks as good as corn, and I don’t know why Portuguese people will see corn as attractive.

[00:08:41] Tiago: I love that one. We actually don’t have that one in Brazil. They say that in Portugal and I find it so funny and that’s the beauty of it. It’s like, cool. I like languages. I think this is funny and I don’t care, like if somebody else would feel strange because I’m never going to please everybody. But there’s going to be those many people who are actually fascinated by language and they are going to be happy about what I’m creating, you know? And that’s why one of the most important things I’ve learned with this very niche project I had. It’s like, I don’t care that it’s just me and my group of friends who are really into creating these puns. I’m going to share it and then I’m going to see what happened and I’m going to do it anonymously, and it’s fine, and that taught me so much about social media. So that that Instagram profile had, like, I think 50,000 followers there. Quite high engagement. It showed me how to grow on social, how to connect with people. It brought me opportunities I would never, you know, have gained. And it was just a side project that was doing for fun and when I actually wanted to create my main project, which is the project that I now work on, all of this knowledge just kind of automatically stayed in my brain, just transfer it to my new project, you know. I stopped the other one because of focus. I wanted to prioritize and it’s great, it’s just like, you know, sometimes if you just put out what you have, which is weird inside you. You find people who are as weird as you.

[00:09:56] Amardeep: So you did weave projects on the side and you were having great fun with it. What made you then make the shift to go full-time into this new brand? Did you kind of struggle to keep a project going on on the side? So you decided I need to take this all the way or what was the decision making that happened there?

[00:10:11] Tiago: So I was working as a graphic designer previously, which is something I quite like and something that I definitely implement in my contents. I really liked to play with visuals and I really liked to visualize complex stuff using visuals and well, I think, I think that one of the biggest motivations is just, it’s just having that flexibility that I wanted to like choose when I want to work and which timings, and where I want to work. I think is good to have the geographic flexibility. Something that I, that I really appreciate being able to work from everywhere, especially because my family’s from Brazil. So you never know. Maybe I’d need to spend a couple of weeks there because somebody, I don’t know, is ill or whatever. I would like to have that option and be more flexible about it. And I think that’s something I struggled with in that transition. It’s is the fact that like, obviously it’s scary to just like do your own thing. And I’m not one of those people who, you know, oh my god, I was born with this entrepreneurial gene. I was like, no, I just want to make cool stuff, you know. That’s the kind of mindset I have. So for me, I made a list of things that were scaring me and stopping me from actually making that transition. I made a list of financial things that I needed to sort out and practical things. And also, the psychological things, like my fears and everything. And then when I made that list and I realized, oh my god, the financial stuff is solved. The practical stuff, when I say practice more because like, oh, I’m resilient, but I’m also Portuguese, can I stay here in this country? Like this sort of admin stuff? And then there was emotional stuff, which is like, I am freaking scared. All these things. What scares me? And when I made all of this tangible, it was way easier to realize that it was just the emotional stuff that was actually scaring me. So I guess that was like the main struggle, like industrialization. And there’s also something I forgot to mention when it comes to like why I wanted to follow up with that project, which is the possibility of doing different projects. Right? So I worked on my book, which was just launched. It’s a book in Portuguese, unfortunately, there’s no point in me talking about it. I was like, damn [unintelligible]

[00:12:14] Amardeep: You can translate it for us or give us a bit of an idea of what it’s about. I’m sure when it goes worldwide, then we’ll get an English copy.

[00:12:21] Tiago: Yeah. Ooh, that would be amazing. Yeah, but it’s basically a journey book. So it talks about this character who wants, has an idea and then it goes through all the sort of creative process, but not just the practical bits of like, oh, put ideas on the paper and then get these ideas in a blob. But actually the things that happen in real life, which is like I don’t want to get started because this idea is so perfect in my head. So once that happened, if I started doing it, it’s not going to be perfect anymore. So it’s basically the character going through all these stages, like from the start until, you know, actually showing the idea and then getting, you know, maybe haters saying, oh my god, this horrible, you know, how do you [unintelligible] So it’s a book about all of these moments in a creative process. And the fact that like, I can work on a project like this, like a book and then later be focused on working on the next project, which is a course, and then focus on a next project, which is something else. I really like how I’m exploring different sort of media, how I’m exploring different projects. And that’s a restriction I had before as a designer and as a content creator, you can explore a little more. It’s like, cool. I can do different things. I’m a human being who has lots of interests and I can actually use them, and that fascinates me like that idea of being able to be versatile, creatively speaking.

[00:13:31] Amardeep: With the list you made, how long did you take over that process? So like, was it something you just in a day and you’re like, okay, this is my solution, or is it, did it take you a while to go through that?

[00:13:40] Tiago: It did take me awhile. I always like to digest this sort of stuff. Like I need to like write it down. I need to put it in front of me so I can see from another perspective. And really, I think it really took me like a month, to like make that decision because I realized I was always looking at the list and I was realizing how much, all of those fears, those boxes I needed to check, you know, like they will never be checked until I left my job. There was no way I could do that beforehand. So I needed to be, I needed to actually take that jump and the fact that all the other bits of the lists, like the practical and the financial one we’re checked, that that was great because it showed me like everything that was under my control and that I could do is done. Now it’s all about the unpredictability of life. It just happens that I need to take that step. Otherwise I would never be able to actually do it. So I think that was comforting knowing that like this very clear separation of what’s in my control, what’s outside, and the fact that I did everything that I could, which was in my control. I think that realizing that very basic, like [unintelligible].

[00:14:43] Amardeep: What was something that I was on the emotional fear list? Like, did you have, do you remember any of them?

[00:14:47] Tiago: Yeah, it’s basically like, oh, people thinking that I’m a failure. If things go wrong afterwards. I don’t know, judging me because they don’t really understand what the job is because content creator like being a content creator, it’s quite a recent thing. So there was lots of things that I realized that, oh, when I was actually, you know, trying to see each fear by fear, there are really things that I don’t care much about. Like, you know what I mean? Like sometimes there’s just very scared of this massive cloud and you’re like, oh my god is a massive fear. And then when you actually start looking at the details, like, oh, I actually don’t care so much about that. And then obviously there’s the ones that I can a lot, which is like me, myself, like dealing with the failure, you know, like if I fail, what does it mean to me? Like, am I going to be super sad or actually, no, I’m going to be proud because I tried, you know, so going one by one and really trying to, I’m not saying like, create a proper answer in the form or whatever. It doesn’t mean that I was way more casual to that, but I just going through them and realizing, yeah, it’s actually possible. It’s not that much of a big deal [unintelligible] and it gave me the confidence to do so.

[00:15:54] Amardeep: It’s, I think a lot of people have this. It’s a cloud of worry and that’s really hard to deal with because what do you do with a cloud, right? Whereas if you can try and put it down and say like these are the exact things what are bothering you. Then you can deal with those. You can’t just deal with a ball of doubt and worry, and I think that’s really important of just don’t let it sink you down where you’ve got this feeling in your stomach where you don’t feel good, try to get the out and try to work out what is it exactly that the problem is? And you might find that the problem is too big for you. And that’s okay. But as long as you know what it is in the future, you might be able to have a different mindset and you might be okay with it problems.

[00:16:39] Tiago: Yeah. Like if the fear is too big and you actually realize, oh damn, I took it out of the cloud. I had a very good look at it. I zoomed in and it’s way too big. How can I break this down to something smaller? And then I think that’s the beauty of it. It’s like just understanding that the cloud will always be scary. I don’t know whatever this is. And if you don’t make it tenable, it’s very tricky to go for it.

[00:17:02] Amardeep: Yeah.

Hi everyone. I hope you’re enjoying the episode so far. I want to take a quick break to ask you to check in with yourself. There’s many people struggling with balance and it’s nothing to be ashamed about. It’s tips that my guests might share can hopefully help you along the way, but if you already feel overwhelmed or burnt out, it’s probably best that you ask somebody for help too. For some, this might be a friend or family member, while others might feel like they have nobody they can talk to. If you’re one of these people, check out the link in the show notes, it’s for United for Global Mental Health. They’ve got health plans all across the world, with people willing to listen on the other side. It’s important to let somebody know how you’re feeling. Now, back to the show.

Is there anything at the moment we’re struggling with? So you’ve now been doing this full-time for a while.

[00:17:44] Tiago: Yeah. I think the biggest struggle is like, I like my project a lot, and then there’s a, there’s not a clear separation between work and fun anymore because I think my project is generally fun to do, and I really love to like, I don’t know, answer to people’s comments and like stuff that people don’t normally enjoy as a creator. Sometimes they’re just like, oh, I got to do this. But I’m like, no, I generally like to do it. And for me it’s tricky because sometimes it’s a Saturday, and I don’t know what to do. I’m just bored at home and I’m like, let me create something. But actually it’s very obviously healthy for me to rest and to just take a step, you know, away from it and just do other things. It’s not just good creatively, but also good, like it’s like a human being who depends on like recharging energies, right. So I think that’s my biggest struggle right now is trying to, to reconnect with the things that I like, and I think I’m slowly doing that. Like for instance, going back to playing football, that’s what we’ve been putting on Saturdays, for instance. So that time on Sunday, sometimes I would use it to create, but now I’m playing football. So I don’t think about content creation. Let me try to set boundaries to work. Although work is fun, you know, like not all the time, obviously, but work is fun. Cool. But it’s still something I need to take a break from.

[00:18:59] Amardeep: And I think what you’re saying there as well is if you don’t take that break, then eventually there comes a point where work isn’t fun anymore. So by taking these breaks regularly, you allow it to stay fun. Whereas once it becomes your entire life, maybe you do that for two weeks or three weeks or a month or a year, but then sooner or later you reach crisis point. Whereas if you’re taking breaks throughout you don’t reach that crisis point and you get recharged and you get back up again, then you’d go down. Whereas, if you just got like that sooner or later, so I’m making hand gestures. So if you’re listening to this, [unintelligible]. If you’re watching on YouTube, you can see what I’m doing. So I think that’s a really good way to think about it is, take the breaks if you don’t need them rather than, is it the prevention rather than the cure, right?

[00:19:42] Tiago: Yeah. We really think of rest as a reward when actually it shouldn’t be really, really like seeing as part of the process. Yeah. I think that mindset shift is very important to make things sustainable.

[00:19:54] Amardeep: Yeah. I think one of the things, [unintelligible], do things that are pointless. Isn’t it? Where like football is, you can say, oh, you should do it because it’s like fitness or like that. But we didn’t play because it makes us fit. We played because it’s fun. Yeah. Do things that are fun because that makes you happier. And then the work of thinking like that is better off because you’re a happier person overall.

[00:20:17] Tiago: Yeah. Yeah. And really trying to like, there’s something that happened for all the pandemic. I don’t know if you thought about that too, but I feel like people really felt like I need a hobby and it needs to be cool. Like I need to bake bread and it got to be amazing. I don’t want to bake bread. I’m like, maybe I just want to like, reconnect with this stuff I like, even if they’re stupid, you know. I was reading your newsletter, the one about the TV, like some people are just like, oh my god, yeah, I’m so cool. I don’t have a TV. Whatever you want to do with your free time. If you want, to watch TV, just go there, like find your way to plug out, you know, sometimes your way of plugging off is playing football. Sometimes it can be reading a book. That doesn’t make you less or more than other people, you know, it can just be fun, what you’re doing. It doesn’t matter.

[00:20:59] Amardeep: I think one of the interesting things about reading books as well is that in the past, it used to be the same way the TV was, right. So people would be like, oh, why are you reading a book for you should be outside and enjoying yourself and being fit.

[00:21:11] Tiago: That makes sense.

[00:21:12] Amardeep: And that’s the way it was treated in the past. Whereas now reading a book is seen as very virtuous and it’s interesting in a way that actually it’s a shift to do that last few years. Whereas now TV is bad, but book is good and this is same thing in many ways, it’s entertainment. You can learn from a TV or you can learn from a book, not one better than the other, but we have this mindset of, oh, if somebody reads the book, that means they’re intelligent. If you read a document or if you watch a documentary or you watch something which teaches something about life, and it can be fiction, it can be wherever. Why does that make you any less so?

[00:21:46] Tiago: Yeah. It’s a very not up-to-date perspective, right? It’s just like, if you ride stock photos study, there’s going to be the person reading book. You’re not going to find a person like maybe, oh, maybe nowadays we do have some pictures of this, but like, you’re not going to see a person seeing a video on YouTube. I’m going to actually, I learned quite a lot, you know, from tutorials on YouTube. So I, I do think it’s like an old fashioned way of seeing things, but, you know, hopefully we were like catch up on that and update the mindset of that. It doesn’t need to be that polarized. Oh my god. Books are smart. TVs are not.

[00:22:16] Amardeep: Yeah. And it’s, sometimes it’s you shouldn’t do things based on how other people perceive you. It should be based on what you enjoy. What helps you learn? What helps you do? What makes you happy at the end of the day? Isn’t it?

[00:22:29] Tiago: Yeah, definitely.

[00:22:30] Amardeep: Because even when you said about your emotional fears, the first few, you said they’re all about what other people think of you. And then you realize these aren’t important. What matters more is how you feel about yourself.

[00:22:40] Tiago: Yeah, it is true. I agree with you. I think that sometimes we just trying to fit in like, whatever is considered logical or safer. I think there’s a big fear in general flight uncertainty, right? Oh my god. From doing this this way, and then everybody does it the other way I might be wrong, but actually, maybe not. They’re just more comfortable with that and that’s totally fine. You know, there’s some people who don’t like to listen to podcasts. They like, they prefer to watch things and that’s okay. Like, you’re never going to please everyone, you know, and, and there’s no one size fits all solution. So I think that’s sort of mindset is very important as well. It has helped me at least

[00:23:14] Amardeep: So what are you working towards now? You’ve got the content creation. It’s going really well. You’ve just had your book out. Are you living a successful lifestyle, your ideal lifestyle now?

[00:23:22] Tiago: I don’t need a successful, like what is success? I’m not really sure. I’m like one of these people that don’t have that definition very well kind of established, but I do connect success quite a lot with like choices. Like being able to make choices. So I think that if most of the time, because life is about choices, right? Like choices, decisions that lead you to somewhere. So if most of your time you’re able to actually make choices you want to do, rather than you have to do. For me. I think that’s, that could be something closer definitions as success for me. And I’m not quite there yet. I feel like I sometimes still need to do lots of stuff, right. Super boring and blah, blah, blah. And I’d like to reduce the amount of times I have to do that. Yeah. But I think I’m on the way of building this. I’m a very patient person and I’m not, especially with the internet. Like you do take some time, like to be an online presence, like to get like some systems going. And I think I’m on the way to do that. But one thing that’s very important for me is that how I’m trying to build my business as well. It’s like, rather than thinking that, oh yeah. Now I’m in the stage where I need to work a lot so later I can just like rest and I don’t believe in that. I think it’s very hard for you to get out of this stage because there’s always going to be something else. So, what I try and do is to build it in a sustainable way. Like, you know, there was obviously that moment where I was overlapping for my job and I needed to kind of go the extra mile, but I knew that wasn’t sustainable. You know, like I knew that if I did for a bit longer, I would need to like slow down my pace and like, cool. So nowadays I really believe in that of like, for instance, I’m going to take a week off social media, I don’t know, next week. And oh my god, you’re a content creator. You’re going to be awake completely for social media for a week. Yeah. I want to try to do that because if I never tried to do that, how can I find out if it works? Right. I have to take that risk. And if I found out, find out that it doesn’t, maybe it’s a sign, maybe it’s a sign. I should review, review what I’m doing, but it’s a sign that I have to test maybe. Oh, if I do it three days and I just have a quick look, does it work? Right? So I’m always up for testing these things. It’s like, let’s see how I can keep you this sustainably, because for me, that’s like, that’s going, would be close to success, let’s say.

[00:25:33] Amardeep: So one point late to start. Okay. that came to my head when I was talking, is that when Tiago came in, he noticed I had a dishwasher, and he was really happy. He’s like, I need a dishwasher. So when he’s talking about his successful lifestyle and how the things he needs to do and, and wants to do, I think for Tiago getting a dishwasher, so he doesn’t have to do the dishes, would be as I do in [unintelligible]

[00:25:57] Tiago: I don’t know how you feel when you come back from holidays. When I come back from holidays, I come like my gut is so many changes I want to implement, you know? So I think that also they can step back, helps quite a lot in that for you to notice, what is your dishwasher?

[00:26:11] Amardeep: It’s also understanding yourself, isn’t it? You need to know what you like and what you don’t like, and not based on what other people think, they enjoy and what they don’t know.

[00:26:20] Tiago: Yeah, it’s very true. So I think it’s interesting, I think it’s always that balance of like what you value, what you can create systems for, you know, and at the end of the day, I don’t, I don’t, how can I say this? Like, I don’t torture myself so much if I’m like my god, oh yeah. Tomorrow I need a solution for this. You know what I mean? Like, no, it’s fine. If other people like it ahead of me and let me take my time. Let me see, like, I actually want to be able to what actually makes sense all sorts. Like I don’t, I don’t [unintelligible]

[00:26:47] Amardeep: The same task can be interesting for one person and then a burden for the other person. So you’ve got to decide what you want to separate out and what you want to outsource. Not what, based on what I do or based on what Tiago does.

[00:27:01] Tiago: Yeah, it’s so true. So at the moment, for instance, the podcast side, I think they do have, again a podcast in Portuguese, and it’s the same, like there’s a person who does an amazing job editing and I find it amazing that it’s the kind of thing that, you know, we just recorded. The person takes care of it. Takes very good care of it. Does an amazing job. I, and if I was to do it, I would perhaps also overthink it. Cause I’ll be like my god. Yeah. I want to create this effects here. Let’s. You know, some noises or add some effects. And I think also taking that step back of having full control of the process is very interesting as well. Like I had some creative insights, like just letting somebody else do that part of the job and like, wow, they got to a place I will never think of. I love that they thought about this because they have an outside perspective and there’s the power, something very powerful there as well.

[00:27:47] Amardeep: So what one mindset shift you think people could make that are listening today, that’d make a positive difference to their lives?

[00:27:54] Tiago: If you were a designer, you are going to have this, this very clear mindset of maybe I’m horrible at what I do, because look at these people like stem people who inspire me because they’re amazing. And you know, my work is so bad, but actually, no, maybe you’re just inside your bubble and actually you do that thing way better than 99% of the world population. And I think that very, very, very small aspect of life, like just being aware that we live in separate bubbles, like my family bubble, my work bubble, whatever can be helpful in many ways for you to charge more for your work, because you understand more your value, for you for like even facing impostor syndrome, because you realized that actually, no, I can’t do these things. You know what I mean? There’s not because that other person perhaps. has a bit more experienced than me, or a lot more experience that I can’t, you know, that doesn’t make me bad. So yeah, I think that helps us with many things, communicating better as well, communicating better outside of bubbles, not using acronyms or like terms that are hard for other people. So I think that the, the sort of mindset of like we live in bubbles and that affects how we work and how we interact with other people, it’s like a massive source important makes such a massive difference.

[00:29:08] Amardeep: Yeah. Cause even if you look at, for example, anything, with football, like dance, anything, people always compare themselves to the people ahead of them. And they forget that they’re actually moved quite far already. So they lose sight of the progress they’ve made. So for example, we have a dance form, I do Bhangra and probably in the top 1% have heard of it, because most of the people in the world don’t do it. So by the very nature of them now having experienced it. Going into one or two classes automatically puts you in the top percentage in the world and something which you don’t think about it, right. Even with football, which might be a more popular sport. Most people might’ve played it a little bit. If you’re playing every week, you’ll probably be better than most people have that too. But we always compare ourselves to the person who’s playing with us. And it can make us lose sight of, like you said, of how we’re actually pretty good compared to the average human being and it doesn’t matter what you’re good at or what you do, you’re going to be better at things than most other people in the world are by the very nature of you spending more time with it than other people do.

[00:30:12] Tiago: Yeah. And I, and then that leads us to another very good question which is, how to not lose sight, right, how to progress, and I think I would way to do it, and that’s the way I like to do it. It’s not the right answer. It’s just trying to help people out, people that perhaps are in the same journey as you, you don’t need to focus so much on like, are they ahead? Are they on the same spot, are they behind? But like, if you just generally, find joy in helping, it also helps you put things in perspective because of all this person is asking me this question, which is something I did a year ago or two years ago, and I know how to answer, I know how to reply and just pay attention to those small moments of cool. I was able to help and also I put in perspective how much I’ve learned since that last experience, right? Yeah. I think it’s a healthy balance between, let’s admire this person that I think is ahead, but also like, let’s be mindful of how much we progressed.

[00:31:03] Amardeep: Yeah. It’s is you can have both, right. You don’t need to be, you don’t need to think you’re amazing the best than the rest of the world. You can appreciate, oh, I’m pretty good, but there’s still more that I can learn. And it’s having that right mindset of you don’t need to put yourself down so much. I think sometimes it’s, I think it’s strange that when people become good, because they’re more aware of how much they’ve got to go to become the best is something to put them themselves down more. Whereas when somebody is new to something, then they know they’re bad, but it’s fine because they’re new. And it’s kind of trying to keep that mindset of, it’s okay to be bad at something because it means you can improve and that could be quite exciting that you can go from nothing to like 90% good, pretty quickly. And it’s always this thing as well. That’s why I see the curve, right. It’s always harder to make these final little bits to become the best in the world, than to become at a level where your better then 99% of the world.

[00:31:58] Tiago: Yeah. Yeah. That is so true. And I find it nowadays, especially so hard not to compare yourself because social media and stuff is basically, we never in history had so much stimulus for comparison. And I think it’s really important to remember, we don’t have all the data, like we never have all the data. We don’t know exactly for where to build an infographic of all this other person we wouldn’t be able to because it’s a lot of perspective in there. It’s not the facts, it’s not numbers. It’s not that, even if we were to build an infographic about ourselves, we would have, you know, big gaps of information there. So that helps me quite a lot as well, in that sense. I always think that like, cool. These are the facts. I don’t know, maybe this person knew another one, and maybe this person who came in front of me has a lot of money. I don’t know. I don’t know their context and it’s not my role, so soon. Right. I do. I do agree with you. I think there’s elements of comparison, like it’s something we need to pay attention to quite a lot.

[00:32:47] Amardeep: Yeah. And I think it does what you said. I can make such a positive difference to your mind. If you can understand how toxic your bubble can be sometimes where you don’t realize that you’ve done pretty well, you’ve done a lot better than you think you have. And also just understanding people from different backgrounds. Whereas sometimes I know people think, oh, the other side is evil or whatever, but if you can understand, that’s just my bubble, the way I think. And the other people are necessarily evil. They just have a different way of thinking to me. It makes just life a little bit less tense as well.

[00:33:18] Tiago: 100%. I want a hundred percent agree. I think it’s just like genuinely goods to think outside the bubble. You know what I mean? Like just to kind of try to develop skills outside of the bubble, try to communicate with people out of the bubble, try to, and as you said, like there’s tension there, so like how do I relieve that. I don’t need it, why do I need to leave that in such a tense way? And just this perspective, disability to take a step out of the bubble, I think it makes such a difference.

[00:33:42] Amardeep: It’s been a pleasure to chat to you Tiago. Where can the listeners hear more from you?

[00:33:46] Tiago: Perhaps direct people to my Instagram. So it’s called tira.do.papel. There’s probably going to be a link in the description somewhere so they can check my things there. Very soon, I’ll be creating content in Medium. So maybe one day, you know, we chat again and I’ll be able to say, I am this guy for Medium, but for now, for now, there’s no context in English. We go and check my workout at tira.do.papel, would be a pleasure to chat with you, actually send me, drop me a message there. If you listen to this, will be nice chat.

[00:34:15] Amardeep: I’m trying to convince him to create a new Instagram in English because his pictures are really cool, but I don’t know what any of it means. So I go through his post and I just vote on something random to see if I get the right answer.

[00:34:29] Tiago: Thank you. Thank you.

[00:34:30] Amardeep: And the final thing is, what’s one small thing that’s brought you joy recently?

[00:34:35] Tiago: Ooh, small thing that brought me joy recently? I think I take a lot of joy from random messages I get. So I think the most recent one was just the replies on my newsletters. I do get lots of cute messages, as I said, many content creators don’t appreciate that. They’re just like, thank you. That’s it. But I generally take the time to like, read through, imagine how people are thinking, and I think that like the most recent one was that just being able to like see somebody complimenting my work. So they picked creating the time to write down why my work has influenced their life in a positive way and that makes me like wow.

[00:35:12] Amardeep: If you’re listening on Apple Podcasts, I’d love it If you could leave me a five star review, it really helps get the message out further. Wherever you’re listening, it would be awesome If you could subscribe and share in your social media channels. If you want to see more of my work and advice, you can find all of the links in the show notes.

Thank you again for listening and I hope you have a lovely day.